Oct 28 AT 12:24 PM Taylor Wimberly 158 Comments

Google fails to address app storage issue with Droid and Android 2.0

The Motorola Droid will be the most powerful Android phone to date when it launches on November 6, 2009. However, the device still features the same shortcomings of all other Android phones. The Droid ships with a 512 MB ROM which contains only 256 MB available for app storage.

Google does not support installing apps to the SD card (and likely never will), so developers are limited in what they can create.

For most applications, we want a small file size to limit the download times. When it comes to 3D games though, we need a ton of space for all the high-res textures, audio, and video.

Have you seen all the awesome iPhone and iPod Touch games? Hardly any of them would fit on an Android phone. It is not uncommon for popular titles to easily exceed 100 MB. For example, the game Myst takes up a whopping 727MB.

Motorola is going to promote the Droid as a mobile gaming device since it features the OMAP3430 platform which features a dedicated PowerVR SGX 530 GPU. This is the similar type of GPU as what was included with the iPhone 3G S, so we know it can pump out some crazy graphics.

I hope Google and Motorola find a way to resolve this problem, but the real solution is to include larger flash ROMs inside the phones.

Are other handset makers paying attention to this issue?

Taylor is the founder of Android and Me. He resides in Dallas and carries the Samsung Galaxy S 4 and HTC One as his daily devices. Ask him a question on Twitter or Google+ and he is likely to respond. | Ethics statement

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  • http://www.twitter.com/the_real_newman @the_real_newman

    ROOT…although it will be tough to get rooting info, for newer users, for moto seeing how XDA is all about HTC.

    • Tonya

      Yeah. root for all of us. But how does that help Android take any market share away from the big boys (Apple, RIM, Palm) which are much more user-friendly for the common man. The average person is not going to root. The average person doesn’t even know what OS is on their phone. They just want to pick it up, fire up the Market, and download some apps. This is such a fail for mass market adoption. Is Google and Motorola actually trying to fail on purpose. Seems so self destructive. You don’t take on Apple with a half a$$ed attempt like this. This is a major product issue! My guess, putting on-board storage in the droid would have pushed the manufacturing costs too far over the line for Motorola so they opted for SD card – which will screw them. Verizon better get ready to answer this question “Ahh, my phone is telling me it’s out of space already. Why? Don’t I have like 16 gig in there”. Alot of these Droids are going to come back when their buddies are playing slick games on their iPhones.

      Had so much hope that 2.0 would overtake Apple and push our beloved OS to the masses. I’m sad now. What a screw up.

      • http://nonya.com yungdinero

        Just to put this out there:
        IMO…If you want to play games on your phone and your aren’t smart enough to follow simple online directions to root your phone, and store game apps on your SD card, then you don’t need to be playing games. Instead, you need to invest your time in learning how to use a computer or learning to follow written/video instructions. Its just a matter of time before more ROMs come out for Android 2.0,

        Or you can get an iPhone, but then that basically functions as an iPod Touch because of AT&T’s service… but I digress.

  • http://WWW.as3kmedia.com ZackG

    This is very disheartening to hear that Motorola made this big of a mistake, you would think that they would be watching the premier Android, The G1, and realize that if they are going to upgrade it to Android 2.0 or have any type of gaming interface that they will need to supercharge the power and size of this little device. Im glad to see that they put a great GPU but the size of the ROM sucks.. and with the size of memory now, having 2GB+ of storage in a phone shouldnt be that big of a deal. I mean hell, iPhone is selling an 8GB unit for $199. Please phone manufacturers STEP UP YOUR GAME!!!!!

    • Stan

      Agree. Instead of just creating a device that will go “head-to-head” with others on the market. Create something that will crush them. Motorola missed the mark. Hopefully HTC will blow everyone away with that 1gHz Snapdragon coming out. I’ll wait for that before upgrading.

    • RyanH

      No, Apple is selling an 8GB iPhone for $99 — that’s the older model. For $199 you get the latest 16GB 3Gs. For $299, you get a 32GB version. I’ve heard the Droid will be $199. While I understand these prices don’t reflect actual cost (it’s subsidized, of course), these are the “sticker prices” as far as customers are concerned. So, for $199, your choice is a 0.5GB Droid where all of the apps run in a slow Java interpreter vs a 16GB iPhone with natively compiled apps. That’s a 30x advantage for app storage on the iPhone along with substantially faster performance and, IMO, better looking hardware and UI. Good luck, Moto and Verizon. You’ll need it.

      • Jason

        Android app developers can write native code also. Take a look at the android developer page.

      • Darwin

        The 8GB iPhone 3GS is due out before Christmas. For $99.

    • mygoldens

      No one cares about games!

  • Thiago Gallo

    Developers can easily create a big game for android. They can put in the apk only some resources and .dex, when the user lunches the game for the first time the game downloads from internet into SD the game contents like sound and textures. The full game don’t need to be in app storage area.

    • Ken

      Storing essential app data on the SD card is a flawed work-around. The app would then have to know how to handle when the SD card is not present, removed midway though to application loop, etc.

      • davidjspooner

        that’s simple – if the memory card is absent at the start of the game then don’t start. if the user removes the memory card halfway through the game then crash and display a message to the user that they are an idiot.

        • Stan

          Too complex for the average user. They will label it as a “device malfunction” and return it to the carrier. In which case the device manufacturer gets burned by high rate of returns. It has to be stupidly simple. It’s all about drop dead simple usability. It should all be transparent to the user. They shouldn’t have to worry about an SD card. It should just work.

          • Tim

            You know what else is ‘too complex’ for the average user? Pulling out the freaking sd card in the first place (i mean you have to remove the battery cover to get to it)! And by the way, apps like the camera already rely on the SD card and give an error if it becomes unavailable, so your point about it causing people to return it for ‘device errors’ makes no sense.

          • Wade

            Sorry, but that’s a huge stretch. Removing the SD card while playing a game would be stupidly difficult, and you should expect to see an error if you do. The same goes for launching an app without the SD card inserted. The Droid comes with a 16gb card, the average “stupid user” probably won’t even know where it is.

          • http://nomel.org nomel

            yeah…since you have to remove the battery to get the flash drive out…i’m sure they’ll label it as a device malfunction. “I pulled the battery out while i was playing this game and the stupid phone turned off! i thought this thing was supposed to be powered off of the intarnet!”

        • Sean

          “if the user removes the memory card halfway through the game then crash and display a message to the user that they are an idiot.”

          Hahaha :) That would be pretty damn funny. Although I don’t think it’s possible anyways since on most phones I believe it’s below the battery.

        • http://Website Name (required)

          I think that’s not an issue. That can be managed by smart programming. The executable code resides in internal memory and data on the sd card once the program launches. So if the user removes the sd card in the middle of the game and tries to run the game again, the games just starts from the beginning default and cleans ups the mess automatically. The pure exe is not touched only data is being written during the game which is disposable data…

      • CJ

        How do you remove the SD card without removing the battery and turning off the phone?

        • http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

          That’s easy on the G1.
          Slide out the keyboard, open the ledge under the green ‘call’ button and remove the sd-card.

          • Andrew Dempsey

            Anyone who is smart enough to pull the SD card out is smart enough to realize it should go back in. Are we now going to argue that sim cards are bad because users could remove them and wonder why their calls dropped or they have no contacts?

      • Zachary Royer

        The battery must be removed in order to remove the MicroSD card.

      • http://Website krazee dave

        have you really removed your SD card in mid ANYTHING, that is such an ignorant observation. Your SD card is BEHIND your battery. YOU do not regularly remove it. Storing items, APPS .apks etc on the SD card free up internal memory, you do not store your home screen, widgets, or other startup items. Games work just fine off the SD card, the new APPS2SD feature of froyo 2.2 works very well. I have had it on my and my wifes android for about a month. I run 235 apps on my android and most are on the SD card not the phone and no issues. Sure if you purely want an idiot resistant phone the current setup is not suited for you, but if you want an idiot resistant phone you probably need the jitterbug phone with only 3 big buttons.
        iPhone lovers or trend followers will do what they will, but the open nature of the android OS makes is a lower priced, easier to upgrade, more open free, and in the long better OS than iOS can ever be. The nature of how it is done mandates that. Whenever the freedom of creativity is over controlled you get less productivity. Most small creative companies find this out when they get bought out by large cumbersome companies. Apple has struggled with this for years, that is why steve came out of re-firement. The iPhone is a perfectly fine phone, it does not though nor will it have the open source android enjoys.

  • http://brighthue.co.uk Keith Cirkel

    This isn’t so much of an issue as you claim. If you look at the largest games on the market such as Doom, it downloads the necessary files to the SD card. While this isn’t perhaps an ideal scenario, it does not inherently limit a developer from releasing a game over the small sizes of the internal ROMs.

    Don’t get me wrong though, I’d love this to push more and more handset devs to release phones with the sizes that of the iPhone. 16gb on-board + 16gb micro-sd sounds very promising. :)

  • http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

    What about games that download their contents (levels/maps, objects, images, sounds, textures, etc) to the SD-card?
    As long as the executable is not too large, this should work, shouldn’t it?

  • Tom

    This was the biggest concern over the past few weeks as every outlet who was spewing specs didn’t say how much ROM this had on it. A tremendous fail if Google/Verizon/Motorola was going after the mass market with this device – which I’m sure they were if they were targeting iphone with the marketing. Apps are getting larger by the minute. it won’t be too long before this handset is obsolete. How did 3 huge companies miss this foul up?????

    • http://reviewerps.blogspot.com Brian Ward

      I think it is a balance. Seems to me most of these PDA’s have a shelf life of 6 months if it is a great phone. Something better is always right around the corner. If they put too much ROM/RAM into these phones at this stage it will force the prices up and the profit down and the planned obsolescence the carriers enjoy will be lessened. The iPhone has been the exception because it was relatively unique during its first two years or so.

    • http://bitbased.net Brant

      Well, hindsite is 20/20, but of course googles answer to the market was android 2.2. The thing is when you have an Open Source OS, everyone can propose features, so it was only a matter of time before a flaw was fixed with a solution, Same reason Linux progresses in leaps and bounds, Open Open Open, even Microsoft is ‘opening’ up as much as possible. But i DO love my 8GB + 16GB DroidX =D

  • http://www.nexsoftware.net nEx.Software

    To those offering up the idea of storing game content to the SD Card. Yes, that is certainly possible but makes things much, much more difficult. It adds a whole level of complexity in making sure that the content is where you expect it to be, that it is the content that you expect it to be and not something else, that ALL of the content is there (you don’t want to find out when you need a resource that you need to go download it again)…

    Oh and then you have to deal with the “WTF? I uninstalled this game, why is it still taking up 100MB on my SD Card?” Yes, it is simple to go ahead and delete the content but this is not what the user is accustomed to, and therefore will likely not keep up on it, or may not know what they should or should not delete.

    In my opinion, it’s just not good because you have basically no control over the SD Card.

    • http://clarklab.net Clark Wimberly

      I hate apps that unnecessarily download things to the SD card. The other day some app downloaded a whole bunch of userpics to my card then when I opened Pixel Pipe to send an upload there were all these random dude’s faces. Not cool.

      • Trey

        And what did you do? I bet you just deleted the crap on your SD card. That’s what I would do…then wonder later why my game wasn’t work. Agree with @stan. It shouldn’t be this hard for the user. The user shouldn’t even have to think about it. It’s a massive usability goof on Motorola’s (and partly on Google’s) part.

        • http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

          If the images of an app are visible to your phone’s Gallery and the sounds to the ringtone and music libaries, then the app-developer has done something wrong.

          The app can download media to the SD-card without them becoming visible to the rest of the system. It’s easy! The app just needs to download them to a directory whose name begins with a period. E.g. “/sdcard/myapp/.images”

          Then the user won’t be able to delete them either. :)

  • http://twitter.com/ohrock Roberto Serrano

    Sorry Taylor,

    But you got this a bit wrong. Nothing is stopping a developer from placing content to an app in the sdcard, much like the camera app places pictures in the sdcard, or world tour keeps thumbnails of the webcam views for the selection menu.

    In other words, this is encouraging developers from making nimble apps, that make creative use of the net after the app is running. A game developer could create a game that downloads the next level into the sdcard, in between levels, or while you are playing.

    The 256MB is probably been set so that the quality of the user experience doesn’t degrade as bad as it has been happening with 1.6 and below.

  • Mike11

    Yes, there are workarounds. But they create all kinds of problems like mentioned above. Since a much bigger ROM is pricey, I hope Android will allow to install applications on external memory in the near future. Especially if Gaming becomes a bigger part on the platform.

    And on an unrelated note, give Android devices more RAM please ;)

  • Rhynos Android

    so my question is this… how is it Googles fault? it’s the handset mfg’s issue, last i checked Google offers up the OS, not the hardware.
    it is an issue, but lets put blame where blame is due and maybe it won’t happen again, although i think we know better than that.
    me, i’m going to root and go cyan, they’ve made it so easy i would be a fool not to.

    • Bo

      If Google would let app to be installed on the sdcard, then problems all solved. Why not? Piracy.

      If they found a new way to protect paid applications, installing on sdcard might be permitted. I thought this is easy for a device like mobile phone, which is always online and the user’s identity is binded, but have no idea why they don’t do that.

      • Derek

        You are absolutely correct. Google doesnt want you going to the Android Marketplace, paying $4.99 for an app, downloading it to your SD card, then taking it out and putting it in your computer and copying it to hundreds of your friends SD cards. So because they are trying to penny pinch, we as consumers get hosed. I will never buy an Android phone that doesnt either A) let you store apps on SD cards, or B) come with much more ROM for storage of programs/apps.

        This is one area where iphone kicks their butts. My old first gen iphone has 8GB’s of space to store apps. I have over 50 apps on my phone, lets see an Android phone do that!

        • mcv

          If it’s Android that’s the problem, then can’t it be fixed? It’s Open Source, right? Can we fix this limitation in Android and replace the OS?

        • Durr Hurr

          Yeah totally! Just like how the iPhone lets you store all your apps directly on the SD card. Oh wait…the iPhone doesn’t HAVE an SD card! Crap!

        • Checkmate

          Google isn’t Apple. When a Developer makes an app, Google doesn’t take 30% off the top like Apple does. Google is trying to protect the Developer’s money, not their own.

          • http://androidandme.com Taylor Wimberly

            Actually, Google does take 30% on paid applications.

        • http://Website nick

          i currently have 113 apps downloaded to my droid totaling 2.85 gb…being said….mose is stored on sd card….withe .exe stored in phone…never had any problem operating a game or any other app for that matter. and second….if anyone wants games that are 1g or higher….or anygame thats gonna be played for hours at a time you should be looking elsewhere…yes a phone is capable of it…but why?

      • Rhynos Android

        i wasn’t referring to being able to DL to the sd card. i was referring to the built in memory. the iPhone doesn’t even use sd cards, yet due to the avail memory ON THE HARDWARE there aren’t any worrys.
        once again, why is this googles fault, you’re paying the same amnt for a phone with only a fraction of the memory avail… and as far as dedroid is concerned, the iPhone doesn’t even allow for an sd card, so nothing for google to learn, they have th OS dead on, the phone mfgs all need to understand it’s not the 90′s anymore, our phones use more memory than the HDD on my first 2 computers COMBINED (and that’s not counting my commodore 64 or 128!)

        • Derek

          Read the freaking article. It is Google’s fault. They refuse to allow applications to be stored and run from the SD card. This is so, because they are so worried about piracy. Plain and simple.

          Because if you stored apps on the SD card, you could remove the card and copy them to a computer thus distributing them for free.

          Stop drinking the Google koolaid, this is their issue and they dont want to fix it.

          • Pankaj Godbole

            As far as saving apps to an SD card goes, as a developer I would not want my paid-app to be bought once and then be distributed willy-nilly. By not allowing apps to be stored on the SD card, perhaps Google has addressed this scenario of ‘piracy’.
            If Android phones are to truly compete against the game-changing iPhone, they would DEFINITELY need to provide at least at much in-built memory as an iPhone with the least amount of such memory (8GB). Therefore, I think the larger issue lies with the phone manufacturer by providing a measly 256MB of in-built memory.

          • Tydiz

            Storing apps on the SD Card isn’t really the viable solution either, in my opinion. I’m sure all who have rooted their phones and have Apps to SD know that its not a solution for the faint of heart. It just becomes too easy to ‘F’ up the SD Card, especially for the lower ended users.

          • http://Website LOL

            There are ALWAYS ways to reverse-engineer definite parts of the universe. Android apps fall into this domain. A software lock on apps being thrown onto SD cards to prevent piracy is absurd.

            If Google does not allow apps to be downloaded to tertiary memory for this reason (which I doubt) well… that is … absurd..

  • Jaime

    What people fail to realize is that games usually take on a different sense in that all of the file are not store in the same archive, the executable in this case could be as small at 50K that runs all of the other data from the SD card (that is 100% possible without rooting the device) it is linux guys. as for the rooting of the phone. I can promise within 5 months the phone will be rooted and the how-to guide will be flying out of the woodwork. No preaching about the added security here either. you can hack anything given enough time.

    • James

      Regular “non techie” folks are not going to root. And with all the Android devices, networks, storage sizes, manufacturers out there; how can a developer know how much of an SD card to allocate…and if a user even has an SD card. As a developer I thought the whole “Android fragmentation” stuff being slung around was a non issue. But now I’m seeing it come into play. Heck, even Sprint came out this week and said they have no way to update folks to Android 2.0. How do these huge companies make these huge mistakes?????

  • Derek

    This really blows! I have an iphone now, which I love. But I hate the AT&T network and customer service. So I was really wanting one of these Droids to switch to VZW network. But heck, if you only get 256MB of ROM to store programs in, thats garbage! And yes, this is entirely Google’s fault. It clearly says that Google will not allow apps to be stored outside of the ROM.

    • naguz

      Your iPhone doesn’t allow you to run apps from otuside the ROM either. In fact, it has nothing outside the ROM. There simply is no sd slot. It is entirely the phone manufacturers fault.

      However, there is no need for apps to be big. All GPS programs for WinMo and Android store their data on sd cars. Most game for WinMo has always done this. The problem is negligible, unless reading speed becomes a problem. But RAM becomes a problem long before that happens.

      • Derek

        Stop arguing who’s fault it is. Google imposed this restriction, the blame lies with them.

        You’re pulling a democrat trick, by arguing about who’s at fault you’re trying to hide the fact that the problem still exists and will not be fixed anytime soon. Who wants to go out and buy an expensive smart phone then immediately have to “root” it? Taking that huge chance of bricking the phone and voiding your warranty. All you android fanbois just man up and admit this is a serious shortcoming that will hold back sales.

        • Daniel Glasser

          You’re completely off base, and I’m offended by your injecting politics into this.

          The reason Google doesn’t allow loading apps off of removable media is quite simple: Security best practices. If an external device contains a hidden trojan, it could infect the phone if the OS allowed executable content on the SD card. Do you want to have to run Anti-Virus code on your phone, sapping the rather limited resources in even the most powerful of handsets?

          Yes, it’s a limitation imposed by Google. The manufacturer chose to provide a limited internal non-volatile memory storage in this go-around. It is unlikely to cause too many people too many problems, and memory can be upgraded in the product line if Verizon sees that 256MB is insufficient.

          I can tell you from direct experience that many of the critical systems that control the displays on modern aircraft (commercial and military) have far less non-volatile memory that programs can be stored in.

          If it so offends you to have this limitation imposed, wait until someone roots the phone, then go ahead and mount it with execute permissions. Don’t blame me if someone trashes the phone with malware, though. Also, don’t blame me if Verizon comes after you (once your phone is infected) and either cancels your service or charges you $$$$ for the 1-900 calls that your phone keeps making to Russia; this “auto-dialer” malware has been seen on PCs with voice modems in the past, and (I think) one or two Symbian or WinCE phones…

    • Zachary Royer

      It is because of Google that Android will not allow apps to be stored outside of the ROM. It is NOT because of Google that Motorola failed to put out a product with sufficient space for a usable phone. Google has good intentions with restricting apps to the ROM, and Motorola was expected to work with that restriction, and build more memory into the phone. It’s not 100% Google’s fault or 100% Motorola’s fault, they’re both to blame for not working together.

  • Chris

    Custom Android Roms have been running their Apps on the SD card for sometime now with no ill effects. It’s just disappointing that Google can’t get their stuff straight.

    • Daniel

      Is the phone usable while working as USB storage? What happens if you take out the SD card? I haven’t used apps2sd yet for concerns like this, that FAQs seem to always forget to mention.

      • naguz

        Yes, it is. Access to the sdcard-partition on the sd card (ie. the FAT partition apps sees as the physical sd card) is denied on the phone, just like in the default android. The Apps2SD (ext2/3/4) partition is still accessible to the phone though, and programs on it continue to function without problems.
        If you want tp take the sdcard out physically, you must shut down your phone first. But why would you need to do that?

    • James

      Amen brother. Google needs to take a note from the hackers producing custom ROMS instead of sending them cease and desist orders. We all know the guy I’m talking about ;) He could straighten this whole thing out in a jif. Why can’t a monster like Google. It’s said to say but is this whole thing starting to mirror the direction Windows Mobile took back in the day? Now Microsoft is even partnering with select device manufactures to avoid fragmentation. I thought Google was smarter but I think they’re tripping over themselves now just to get the product out to market. This is not the way to go about mass adoption though!

  • Trevor

    What kinds of problems would storing app data separately from the app itself cause? That’s been happening in the PC world for decades and it works fine. Better, even, because it gives people access to the data (so they can mod it, for example). And, speaking as a programmer, the logic to grab the data is not very complex. If it adds significantly to the complexity of your app, your app must be really simple.

    I agree it’s a stupid limitation, but I really don’t see this being an actual issue for users in the near future.

  • Spacecadet

    I read that the sony ericson xperia x3/x10 has 32gb internal storage. Could this be app space ?

  • dedroid

    Google and Motorola are fools. Can you not look at the success of the iPhone and see where it differs vs. Android? The app store is so successful because users have TONS of space to store the apps. The lack of built in storage has always been Androids weak spot and will continue to be so thanks to Google and Motorola.

    • Tonya

      Agree with @dedroid. If Motorola was looking to regain market share and take some of the crown from Apple, they should have put onboard storage in there.

  • http://doyoulikefood.com mcdisease

    I read somewhere that Apple’s demand for 8/16/32 gig flash roms exceeds production. There may be some sort of supply problem other manufacturers are having in getting these chips.

    http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20091015/worldwide-demand-for-iphone-3gs-outstripping-supply/?mod=ATD_rss

  • http://plankhead.com Zacqary Adam Green

    You mean the SD card isn’t internal flash for all intents and purposes? I mean, it’s certainly in the interior of my phone right now. Sure, it’s easy to remove, but so is the battery, and the phone can’t function without that?

    • Daniel Glasser

      SD cards are more like hard drives than memory, and not directly addressable. The 256MB of internal Flash is most likely NOR Flash, which can be addressed directly (like RAM), whereas the SD card is accessed in blocks (typically NAND Flash). There is also CRAM that uses phase change materials, but this is not yet available in the GB densities needed for larger internal storage.

  • Tom

    The bottom line is speed – which games and other apps need to take advantage of. Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files. And what’s to stop the average schmuck from going on their SD card and saying “WTF is this directory, I didn’t put it there” Delete. Now they’re screwed.

    Unfortunately, I have to give it to Apple. They got it right for the masses – the non tech folks. zip the entire app in one piece and put it on onboard storage. Its wrapped in a nice package which is quick to pull and doesn’t rely on a data connection to download new levels, more content, etc. Road warriers that spend half their life on planes – aka Blackberry users – do not always have data access when they need it. If Motorola was going after RIM, they should’ve thought this through and opted for ‘some’ onboard storage. maybe 16gig at least.

    • http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

      >>”Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files”<<

      Not necessarily true. I'm a developer and my experience is that my phone's SD-card is faster than the 'phone-memory'.
      My app writes and reads a large temporary file. Storing this file on the SD-card was faster (writing way faster, reading only a little faster) than on the phone-memory. My G1 has a class 6 SD-card, though.

    • http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

      >>”Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files”<<

      Not necessarily true. On my G1 writing and reading large files (especially writing) is much faster on my SD-card than on my phone-memory. My app does this and writing a large file on my SD-card (class 6) was almost twice as fast.

  • http://www.mobilebrazzers.com mobile brazzers

    Guys its as simple as this-

    Until Google/Android get on the ball and either allow us to install apps to the SD card, or new phones start coming out with Gigs of internal space, rather than Mb..

    ANDROID GAMES WILL SUCK

    they suck pretty bad now, its been a year of the Android market, and we’re still sitting on a market full of mostly amateur junk.

    Why Google is dropping the ball on what is likely people’s 2nd or 3rd favorite use of a smartphone is beyond me.. try showing off an Android phone and then have your iFriend load up the Vans Off The Wall skateboarding game on his iPhone. There’s simply no contest, and they gotta get on this quick.

  • http://www.ticketwarehouse.com William

    What I don’t get is how Verizon has the audacity to claim that the Droid has 16GB of internal storage (droiddoes.com, click “Photos”). Is that not blatant false advertising? The only place that confirms the onboard storage is only 256MB is Motorola’s developer site. Everywhere else says 16GB, some places not even mentioning that this is removable.

  • Frank

    @William I agree. It’s clearly false advertising on Verizon’s part. There is alot of talk on Twitter about it. I think only techies have picked up on it unfortunately. I think Verizon is going to see alot of these things coming back when people max out that storage with apps.

    Google – why didn’t you fix this in Android 2.0???????????????

    • http://www.nexsoftware.net nEx.Software

      I asked this very question to Motorola (MOTODEV) and they seemed unaware that Verizon was marketing it this way. They mentioned they would look into it, but I doubt that will amount to anything.

      • James

        Who actually thinks the sales monkeys in the Verizon store even know about this? I’d like to see the blank stare when someone asks them how much memory can be used for apps.

  • Frank

    Well stated @mobilebrazzers. As a developer I’m extremely concerned that Small ROM space/requirement has handcuffed developers so they will not be able to compete with iPhone developers and it will ultimately restrict mass market adoption as people will max out that storage limit rather quickly AND they may be returning Android devices in droves when they sidle up to their iFriend and see all the great apps (aka 3D games) that aren’t available on Android. Why the heck did Motorola put a great processor in the droid only to be limited by Google’s storage fail?? I shake my head in amazement that 3 multimillion dollar companies — Verizon, Motorola, & Google — let this happen.

    • Derek

      I agree. How could THREE huge companies with thousands of brilliant engineers drop the ball on this?

      I have a 1st gen 8GB iphone that I love. And it works flawlessly. I have a couple friends who have Android phones. And to do even half the stuff that I can do, they have to hack it, root it, ect. It frustrates them to no end. There is absolutely no way in heck that Google/Android will ever take even a nibble out of Apple’s market share until they have a phone that just plain flat out works smoothly like the iphone. And it sucks because I hate AT&T and so badly want off them, but there is not a single phone that can even hold the iphone’s jock strap. Plain and simple, if you dont think so you are just an iphone hater.

    • Durr Hurr

      You guys are either paid shills, lying about being Android developers, idiots, or all three.

      If you were really developers, you would understand that THERE IS NO MEMORY LIMITATION. Android apps can write information to the SD card. This is no different than a Windows app writing information to a different directory than to the one in which it is installed. The only thing that has to be stored in the internal memory is the base executable (in order to prevent piracy), and that can be extremely tiny.

      The bottom line is that none of this makes any difference at all to the end user. 99% of non-techie users will never remove their SD card once it is installed. Apps and games can be huge (just like on the iPhone). You can store hundreds of apps. They are not limited in any way by the 256MB internal memory. Now stop lying and trying to make a big deal out of this absolute non-issue.

      • Derek

        Um, you’re the one thats crazy. You can ONLY store the apps to the phone’s ROM. Right now apps are averaging 4-6MB, and thats for simple little apps like sports score checkers, twitter clients etc. Games… those are huge some are in the hundreds of MB’s. So how do you figure you can store “hundreds of apps to the phone”? Get off the koolaid.

        On my iphone I have about 50 apps, and they range in size from around 600KB all the way up to over 250MB. All told I’m using over 2GB of memory on apps. Droid would never be able to do this, without rooting it or running some unapproved OS that could brick the phone or void the warranty.

        What you people fail to realize is maybe its fine for the “geeks” or “techies” to have to root the phone and do all this other crap to get apps on the SD card, but the majority of phone users are not those kind of poeple. They want to download the app, and run it, and run lots of them. Thats why an Android phone will never touch the iphone in sales or user experience. The iphone blows away anything else in the marketplace for ease of use and interface. Plain and simple. I have one and I would kill to get my iphone on a good network like verizon, AT&T blows badly.

      • http://none Sean

        Thank you for your comment. I think it seals my decision. I think a GB on on board storage would have been better (isn’t it dirt cheap?). I don’t think Motorola could be as stupid as these people are saying. Does placing the executable on the phone and data or hard drive mean that the phone is then protected from malware?
        Thanks Sean

  • Dan

    What a major fail. I was all set to jump on the Droid but am now rethinking my plans and will probably, reluctantly, join the iPhone bandwagon. When will companies ever learn? Remember the old days when DOS was restricted to 64 MB? Microsoft never imagined anyone would ever need more than that. Deja vu.

  • Roland Stone

    Palm OS (not WebOS) allowed running apps from the SDCard. Piracy was not an issue because the sophisticated developers incorporated registration codes that recognized a particular phone’s ID. But I agree with earlier posts that developers with any smarts will know how to write a game that installs in less than 5 megs but draws its graphics, sounds and other large data streams from the SD card.

  • Flarn

    This is a non issue. Executables are tiny, and storing program data and libraries in a separate location from the EXE is extremely common. It will all be handled behind the scenes by the programs and their installers. Even the uninstallers will know to delete data off the SD card. This is simple 1st year programming stuff. Stop spreading the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. No one “dropped the ball”. It’s just Apple fanboys who reek of desperation that their favorite toy is going to be made obsolete. Get over it.

    • Derek

      HA!! Maybe when there’s an android phone that you can go and install a 750MB 3D video game and play it flawlessly, or have a phone that has full multi-touch for zooming, navigating, cut and paste, etc. Or have a phone that doesnt require some little 16GB SD card.

      There isnt an android phone out there that has better hardware than the iphone 3gs, including the Droid. They both have the same processor, and dedicated GPU. Iphone 3Gs has 32GB of internal ROM to be used anyway you see fit though. Android doesnt. iphone has 100,000 apps, android doesnt. iphone apps work flawlessly because there’s only one type of hardware that they have to run on, android doesnt. Theres dozens of android hardware combinations, just like the PC world vs Mac.

      So when you say the iphone will be obsolete you are smoking crack loser. iphone has 30% of the smartphone market in 2 years, android has been out for a year and has what? 1%. Yea, i see the iphone being obsolete (NOT!) And wait until the next gen iphone comes out next july, it will smoke anything out there running android. The best android phone out now, including droid, already is not as good as the current gen iphone.

      • destardi

        ‘derek’ is a troll. More than that, ‘derek’ is a troll TOOL.

        Impressive!

    • http://www.nexsoftware.net nEx.Software

      Umm… There is no facility for an Android application to take part in its own un-installation and therefore it cannot cleanup after itself. Not sure where you got that idea. You obviously know very little about how Android applications are managed by the system (in terms of install and uninstall). It is incredibly rudimentary… Install = Move file to install path and create its data path (on internal storage), notify system that it is there and determine it’s publicly exposed capabilities; Uninstall = Delete file and its data path (on internal storage), notify system it is no longer there.

  • Nick

    Personally I don’t see what the big deal is. Gaming still hasn’t caught on with Android at all. There are no devices out there powerful enough to really do anything decent. I’ve found most of the games suck and the few that I do have and like are relatively small files anyway.

    I can easily see this thing rooted within 3-4 weeks upon release. And devs are getting smarter about having data stored on the SD card. (Again, rooting is not needed for this)

    What it comes down to really is that the Devs need to get a bit more creative and not be so lazy and make it work. Work with what you have. Simple as that.

    • http://www.nexsoftware.net nEx.Software

      LOL, feel free to start developing Mr. Quit-Being-Lazy.

      And to be completely honest, I believe that the hardware capabilities of Android devices are not really what is holding back game developers. I’d venture a guess that it’s very much to do there being very little chance for ROE.

    • http://www.ticketwarehouse.com William

      But thats the thing. The Droid is supposed to have the necessary hardware (decent processor and discrete GPU) to do gaming – I have seen a lot of comparisons to the capabilities of the PSP and the Touch. Combine that with the expected increase in adoption of Android that should result from Verizon’s marketing push, and you now have a user base that has the ability to run games, which should make the Droid attractive to game developers, but without the internal memory to support it. These new users mostly are not going to be rooting their devices, and if the risk of people removing or altering game files on the card is too high, it just isn’t going to happen. I think the Droid was the best chance for Android to really get a foothold, and the low memory blew it.

      Yes, I am a little bit bitter that my Droid is going to have half the memory of my ten year old Palm Pilot.

      • Derek

        As well you should be bitter. What is a MB now days anyways, we’ve been using GB’s and TB’s for years now, and motorola makes a brand new “state of the art” phone that only has 512MB ROM for OS and apps, thats laughable and completely embarrassing to the entire android culture.

      • Cory

        As well you should be bitter. Of the same mind here. If Motorola would have put onboard storage on the Droid, you would have seen EA, Glu, etc jumping at the chance to make games for Android.

        The issue with even offloading some of the app to storage is a huge fail. What’s to stop a non-techie user from seeing some weird folder on his SD card and just deleting it.

        The entire app needs to be wrapped in one package to streamline ease of use for the consumer and ease of development (and adoption) for the developer.

        Get with it Google!

    • Derek

      The reason games havent caught on is because the games out there SUCK! have you seen android games? They look like Atari 2600 games, all blocky and cheesy. Have you seen iphone games? They look awesome, like PS2 games. HUGE difference. Thats why games havent caught on.

  • richard

    What about for those snes and sega emulators….. i notice you have to download the roms off other websites cause you cant download of the marketplace… do those take up alot of space???

    • John

      Downloading roms is illegal unless you own the game, while distributing an emulator is not. That’s why you can’t get the roms in the marketplace.

      • Mike

        It’s illegal to download a ROM to a game you own, you are only legally allowed to rip the ROM image yourself.

  • http://www.redban.com Brian Redban

    Here is a commerical I made about this Android Problem:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz0PyAY4tCc&feature=player_embedded

    :)

    • Jim

      Priceless! Funny as hell!

      Still sad about the onboard memory though!!

    • drock4484

      That was hillarious, loved it. Good work.

    • http://Website yyewhjdfeowdfj

      Yeah. that was so funny, it’s no wonder why it’s on YouTube, the mass’s idiotic food. Hope it stands next to a video by ShaneDawson, or RayWilliamJohnson; along with their “hillarious” thumbnail for the video. You moron.

  • jensen

    Kevin Dill, a spookesmann from Google ?

    http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/29/here-are-all-the-great-android-games-the-answer-is-simpler-than-we-think/

    We have a partial solution at this time to some of the Android storage woes.

    Remote file storage is available for the Android which emulates local storage for predominantly multimedia.

    We offer that service at Android Storage. We are working on technology and an app which will actually allow apps to be stored completely remote and then be “temped” to the phone via a stream and operated under a master app.

    That will be coming before spring.

    This changes the playing field and allows devices to fully take advantage of “virtually” unlimited app and storage memory with the improvements in 3G, 4G, and WIFI availability.

    First lag, then storage… next topic ;-)

    • Jim

      Irrelevant!! This should be out now if us developers wanted to crush the Apple machine. Why the heck is Google reinventing the wheel. Just partner with handset manufacturers that are willing to put onboard storage in place from the rip!!!

      So how is this “game changing” storage “solution” going to help the millions of early adopters of Android. Answer: It won’t. Because now Android is fragmented all over the place. Different versions running on different carriers (Sprint openly admitted that they don’t even have an Android update ability yet. It’s on this blog) with different storage space…. Why didn’t Google take a clue from Windows Mobile. Microsoft – and HTC this week – said they are scaling back on the number of variances of devices so they can concentrate on quality and service. Google…watch and learn.

    • drock4484

      How is that “game changing”?? Its not, its a crappy alternative to just putting more ROM in the phones. Whats the big deal here?

      Who wants to store their apps on some google server, then when ever you want to run it you have to stream it to your phone over 3G every single time? That sucks! Just the idea that Google came up with this “Android Storage” idea shows that they realize they have a problem, a huge problem actually.

      • moondog

        It is called “spin” and “damage control”. The “solution” is insulting and relies on consumers being stupid and apathetic to the issue.

  • John

    Myst is only 534 MB. The developer trimmed the size with an update back in June. Still won’t fit, though!

  • moondog

    Rooting is NOT the answer. The industry will not increase app development for the 2% of people that go through the effort of rooting their devices.

    This must be an OS revision that allows virtual space on the SD and part of the SDK.

    • Toby

      Agree!!! Just like Cydia iPhone apps will never reach the mass market distribution that App Store apps will. It has to be transparent to the most basic user. Android is really stumbling with this. I personally thing Google themselves should skin Android and make it so carriers can’t mess with it. Roll that into the Google Experience agreement. They would need to hire an incredibly talented UI crew though. I think Google is too into the nuts and bolts and ignores the UI too much. To the basic user, the UI is huge.

  • David

    What people are missing is the fact that non-techie people will probably forget there is even an SD card there… out of sight, out of mind. Storing game data to the SD card is a very good solution. What you are arguing is similar to saying that the device doesn’t have enough memory because there isn’t enough space to store your entire music library with the music player application.

    Programming an application to do this is incredibly simple.
    1) check to see if the art you are about to display is in the one-and-only location that it should be. if so, copy it to RAM.
    2) if not (or if the SD card is not present), download it to RAM, and write it to the SD (if present) when you get a chance.
    3) proceed with the RAM copy.

    This gives you the option of playing on a full-streaming basis if you don’t have an SD card or it is full, while still caching the assets if possible. In-game options should modify this behavior to the users preferences.

    If you unplug a hard drive while playing a game on your PC… you should expect bad things to happen. Likewise for the SD card. No well-written executable should take more than a few MBs. For reference, the executable for Visual Studio 2008 with all it’s dll’s is under 40 MB. ALL of the executable code for all of Microsoft Office 2007 Professional is 268 MB. Game clients can run as little as 10 MB… they are all about the assets. But remember, these are full-featured desktop applications with years of coding behind them. I don’t expect to find anything near the feature set of a desktop application on a mobile phone (i.e. where would you cram MS Office’s ribbon bar, even on a wxvga screen? That’s a lot of code, though).

    There are very few applications out there that should take more than 1 MB of space. Those that do are almost certainly loaded down with data files that can and should be stored on the SD card. If you bought a game only to find out that it would only run on computers with 32 GB of RAM, you would return it. Similarly, if you buy an android game that requires 100+ MB of internal memory and stores nothing on the SD card, it’s a badly written game, not anything against the platform.

    It’s the developer’s responsibility to write applications to fit the platform they are given. This is doubly true for embedded system development. When specs have to be tightly controlled to squeeze everything possible into as small a space as possible, compromises always have to be made. Android’s chosen compromise is to give the user the ability to exchange memory cards rather than locking it all internally. There’s simply not room to add in an extra set of internal memory without making the device bigger and clunkier, using a smaller battery, or other compromise that is less tenable than just telling developers to store application data in a location separate from their actual application.

    The only thing I’d like to see changed is that there should be a default directory, akin to “Application Data” or “Program Files” that will alert the user that this is information they need to leave alone. All program data would be stored in subdirectories below there. There may already be a best practice established for this reason.

    • Derek R-C

      Amen @David. I think this flaw is getting blown way out of proportion. Someone can still program Myst to play on an android machine. I think this will end up having the usability of a partitioned hard drive. You will keep all of your system files and exe in one memory location and all the other files on the external memory.

      Yes this is still a flaw and NEEDS to be fixed in the future. However, this flaw is definitely not going to stop me from buying the phone.

    • MJlong

      I agree with 95% of your point, but internal flash memory is small, and light. How has an iPhone grown (in terms of memory capacity) 4x in two years, added radios, etc w/o massive girth expansion? BTW, no software update will address internal memory. It COULD allow downloads to be stored on removable memory. Google won’t.

  • steve

    I am so surprised that Android 2.0 still has this limitation. My experience with G1 i had is that It is too easy to download multiple applications. My G1 was out-of-memory from the day 1. I will have to delete several installed applications in order to run some other applications. So as a user, I have to constantly think what the next application I need to delete is. So that I would install another cool app. I have this problem with Blackberry as well.

    Another point is that just because installing an app on SD is allowed, does not mean the access permission of the application has to be compromised. the platform still can use Certificate to validate the installed the app even if it is SD.

    So my view is that this is the biggest shortcomings of the Android OS/Phones

  • http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html andrew

    “You can store files directly on the mobile device or on a removable storage medium.”

    http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html

    • drock4484

      Yea, I dont think anybody is debating that you can store data on the SD card. They’re talking about storing the app itself on the SD card and running it from there. Big difference from just storing data.

  • moondog

    Droid does NOT have 256 or 512 free for apps. To rub salt in the wound, the OS actually takes some of that space up with the apps with th OS- Browser, maps ,nav, etc.

    Android has known about this problem for over a year and knew about it BEFORE the Droid was in development.

  • Jason H.

    As a developer of games on multiple platforms this is a deal breaker. Why would I want to spend my time trying to develop for a platform that does not give the user the best experience? For now I am content to continue to focus on iPhone, although the market is getting saturated with poorly written games and other apps, anytime a team is able to prove themselves to be better than the herd they are richly awarded. Android fix this issue!! Set some guidelines for your partners!

  • MJlong

    This very issue has intrigued/frustrated me about Android devices here in the US. Google has certainly gone after the iPhone and its OS; first very quietly, and now quite loudly. Its first phone (HTC G1) was what i consider its prototype, as was selecting T-mobile as its first carrier. The G1 stood alone for — what 8 or 9 months? Not a huge commitment on anyone’s part to push the “open” platform. During that same period of time, Apple and its App store grew to massive proportions, while software developers allowed Android to grow on them. Bear in mind, most early Android apps were free, even after the beta stage had ended. I suspect Google was trying to distance itself from Apple’s capitalist approach (do it OUR way, and nobody rides for free). Despite the G1′s clunky hardware and 1st gen software, the concept of Android caught on, bringing the interest of all 4 major US carriers and phone manufacturers with it.
    Now, here’s where things get a little strange. While no Android phone issued in the US has the capability to load apps on its msd card or internal flash memory sufficient to hold data-hungry apps (to my knowledge, the highest ROM capacity rests at 512MB, with only 256MB or so user-defined), why the hell does everyone in Europe and Asia have access to the Samsung Galaxy i7500/5700 (can’t remember model # – not important)? 8Gb internal plus 32Gb msd rated. WTF!!! Then Sammy brings us its retarded little brothers, the “lite” and behold II, with the same bs antiquated components the G1 and mt3g have- which were old when they launched.
    I apologize for my windy thought trail, but here’s where I’m headed with this. The ability to load 3rd party software on removable memory exists (outside of the US mobile phone market, that is!), and Android phones can certainly be manufactured with ROM that dwarfs its US cousins. The only reason (that flys) why these 2 conditions are not met in the US market is the trail of the Greenbacks… You know, the almighty dollar! Google has very surruptitiously taken the main competitions’ (Apple) model of iTunes and perfected it into a well-oiled cash cow. By keeping the cost off apps low, yet only allowing them to be stored on miniscule internal memory, Google has made it ridiculously painful for someone (w/o great tech saavy, at least) to transfer bought software to any device other than the one it was downloaded to. It’s the McDonald’s approach to software – cheap apps times a bazillion downloads at 50 percent take (total guess here!) for Google, makes it seem like they aren’t “Apple greedy”. But in fact, they’ve been slicker and far less obvious. Think I’m nuts? Just for chuckles, watch Google’s stock the next few months, as the onslaught of new Android handsets hits the market. Better yet, BUY SOME!!

  • MJlong

    As a final diatribe, I would gladly pay an extra $100 for an Android phone that gives me reasonable internal ROM (at least 2Gb), plus microsd for other files. Said device could’ve been fabricated with components and technology of 2005. How wonderfully Apple-esque.

    • Derek

      I know right? What is the real world price differential between a 512MB ROM chip and a 2GB ROM chip? it cant be much. $25??

  • Cam

    As has been said before the Droid Comes with a 16G Micro SD Card so might as well remove this Page.. nice try Apple on trying to smash the phone thats going to smash you..

    • Derek

      You’re the idiot. You obviously didnt read the article or any of the posts. It doesnt matter if it had a 1 terabyte SD card in it, you cant store or run programs from it without hacking the phone, thus taking a chance on bricking it or at least voiding your warranty from verizon. Now who wants to buy a “state of the art, iphone killer” and then have to go through all hoops to do that?

  • http://kryptonians.net Gene Turnbow

    With respect to being able to handle the sudden disappearance of the SD card while an app that needs to load assets from it is running, you can relax – in practice, nobody does this and expects anything to work correctly. I believe the SD card is actually UNDER THE BATTERY as well, so you can’t remove the SD card with the phone running in any case.

  • snorkel

    People please stop calling the internal storage memory ROM, it’s not ROM, ROM means READ ONLY MEMORY, if it was a ROM you would not be able to store stuff on it at all.

  • Marc

    My issue is that there is an internal memory limit at all. Yes, the primary executables may not take up that much space, but you will run out at some point. Then what do you do? Also, with the bulk of the application’s files being stored on the SD card, what if I choose to buy another card for more such storage? I will have to switch cards out depending upon which application I want to run. And from what people have said, to access the card slot, I will basically need to turn off the phone.

  • gwlaw99

    So let me get this straight. You are complaining that the Droid’s 16GB card may not be big enough to handle all apps and have to be swapped causing problems, but don’t factor in that the iphone’s memory can’t be removed at all?

    • http://www.madebypharaohs.com UMAD

      are you fucking dumb? YOU CAN’T STORE APPS ON THE CARD. Read the article again! You can have 1 trillion gigs SD card and you still can’t put more than 256MB worth of apps on your phone.

      On the iPhone you can use the 16/32GBs for apps if you want to!

  • Hamranhansenhansen

    The iPhone brought desktop class Web and native applications to the phone. Everybody else needs to scale up fast. With the Pre, the first thing that disqualified it for me is it had the same storage as my 2 year old iPhone. With Android, the hardware all seems to be out of the pocket calculator heritage of small devices. iPhone is clearly part full-size PC and part iPod, which is not only a more powerful computing heritage but it appeals to more people.

    Google bought Android in 2005 and it was a couple of years old at that time. It’s taking forever for something good to come out of it.

  • Jim

    Well don’t worry, remember, Android is ‘OPEN’ so that means all you developers can fix it all and make everything ok. Good Luck with that iPhone killer, lol. Looks like it was DOA.

  • Rowan

    I thought Android was ‘open’ yet they wouldn’t let me install apps to an SD?

    How do I back up purchased Apps? Can I redownload them on my other phone, or my partners phone, without paying for it a second or third time? I can on the iPhone, one of the things I love.

    Can anyone running Android answer this for me?

  • http://www.bestwebimage.com BWI

    So I assume internet cache is limited. What a shot in the foot. I have always been a treo user, and memory is limited on the device. If Treo did not allow apps to go on sd cards the treo would go in the trash. 256MB gets sucked up fast…

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  • John

    Most android apps are between 1-3 mb, some even smaller. Also, most of the apps only store bootable info on the ROM, and store the remainder of the app data on the SD card. I have 13 apps installed which consist of Pandora, news readers, docs to go etc, and I still have 222 mb of internal storage.

    I don’t see this being a huge issue. This phone for me is about productivity, not a gaming device. I already have home consoles and an ipod touch that I can use for gaming.

  • http://www.mindgems.com/products/Fast-Duplicate-File-Finder/Fast-Duplicate-File-Finder-About.htm Duplicate File Finder

    This seems to be a very serious issue also for navigation software like iGo which is 4gb for the iPhone. I guess google and hardware developers will resolve the issue soon. Myst is a really cool game :)

  • the_true

    oh i read a many bullshit hear. an iphone had up to 32GB of memory but you have on the iphone a partition of 300MB for the apps. main stuff like music, sounds and texture of the game are outside of this partition. it is like you have a sd card.

  • joe

    people still aren’t understanding… you can install any game. iphone people are deliberately ignoring this… I own an iphone but want the new toy. I won’t not buy it because the executible is on the phone and the data is on the sdcard. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME WHERE MY DATA IS STORED IN MY LITTLE PLASTIC THINGY — MYST WILL STILL WORK. Stop all the QQs. The reason to own an iphone is if you <3 itunes (geniusplaylist ftw) and fasion, and/or have a favorite app that is not ported to droid yet. NOT this silly misinformation.

  • gooooooooooooooooo

    have you guys seen the iphone ssucks video?

  • destardi
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  • alex

    but the cnet reveiw said it came with 16 gigs!!!!! ahikufajkfhjkahjkfhkjam got mine about 10 hours ago and i think it just crashed

  • http://Website Name (required)Matt

    NOOOOOOO!!!

    This kills it for me. I have to take my phone back now. There has to be some way around this.

  • chaostheory6682

    I recently purchased the droid but after finding out about the major limitations of the phone I believe I will be returning it. I guess if you want iphone quality games you have to get an iphone. To bad I enjoyed being a verizon customer.

  • http://Website Andrew Mayo

    In fairness, it is correct that the iPhone does share this limitation. The OS partition is much smaller than the total available flash and applications have to fit into this space (about 500M total, I believe).

    You can jailbreak the phone and symlink to get round this – but then that’s true for Android as well. HOWEVER this doesn’t mean google can ignore the issue. Lower end Android phones such as the T-Mobile pulse (Huawei 8220) which are new on the market have very limited application space available – on my phone currently about 60M is free after installing just a few apps. So this is definitely a potential issue that requires a resolution.

  • http://Website Matt shaw

    Are any of you intelligent people? Any? Any of you?

    ::shutters::

    Not getting into my real point, but another question to ask yourself.

    When your Hard drive runs out of space, what do you do?
    Get a new, bigger hard drive, or delete old, useless stuff.

  • http://Website Thomas

    I love you iPhone fanboys that arent bothering to heed the actual droid users comments regarding the fact they have no trouble carrying 100 plus apps with the majority of memory going to the SD card…

    Seriously…its not a physical problem, nor for the average joe. He doesnt care or know a thing. It is an image problem though because saying 32 gigs sounds awhole lot better than 256 onboard…

    What happens to your iPhone when yo urun out of storage space with 20 movies and 1000 songs? Opps..no more space for apps anymore either…

    It’s nothing more than an image problem, so I dont see it as a design oversight, its an image decision on the part of Google/Android/Manufacturer whomever you wish to blame.

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  • http://Website BERNIE

    HATERS, YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF ANDROID HATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(.5+.5)

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  • http://Website KRazee DAve

    Froyo does take care of the app issue.. Apps2SD moves most apps to your SD card, the 16GIG or 32Gig card…
    I am running a motorolla droid A855 with 2.2 froyo and 235 apps installed on it.
    Quadracent score of 1325 (if you do not know what that means it doesnt matter, but it is as fast as the newest nexus running 2.2)
    Battery life is decent, it is a computer tweakers dream and I have my wifes setup for ease of use (for non tweakers)
    What about chrome to phone? That absolutely rocks, anything I find online I can send to my phone that way, even directions. And it multi-tasks just fine out of the box.
    I have wifi tether also—– so my laptop gets internet from my phone (verizon is not charging more for that ) I also have usb tether if I want a locked connection.
    There are many pluses to this OS. The thousands of open source developers compared to ANY other smart phone OS is amazing.
    iPhone will have its day, Macintosh did, Texas Instruments did, IBM did. As for me my android phone works great, FRING gave me Voice over IP (skype) while I was in Haiti on missions without needing an international phone. The apps are plentiful enough, yes there is not 1million plus apps, but the 100K+ cover what I have needed and more and no company telling me what app I can and cant have.. So annoying.

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    Does android OS allow the application resources (images, video files, etc) to be stored on the SD card and just the code on their internal memory ?

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  1. @the_real_newmanGuest 5 years ago

    ROOT…although it will be tough to get rooting info, for newer users, for moto seeing how XDA is all about HTC.

    • TonyaGuest 5 years ago

      Yeah. root for all of us. But how does that help Android take any market share away from the big boys (Apple, RIM, Palm) which are much more user-friendly for the common man. The average person is not going to root. The average person doesn’t even know what OS is on their phone. They just want to pick it up, fire up the Market, and download some apps. This is such a fail for mass market adoption. Is Google and Motorola actually trying to fail on purpose. Seems so self destructive. You don’t take on Apple with a half a$$ed attempt like this. This is a major product issue! My guess, putting on-board storage in the droid would have pushed the manufacturing costs too far over the line for Motorola so they opted for SD card – which will screw them. Verizon better get ready to answer this question “Ahh, my phone is telling me it’s out of space already. Why? Don’t I have like 16 gig in there”. Alot of these Droids are going to come back when their buddies are playing slick games on their iPhones.

      Had so much hope that 2.0 would overtake Apple and push our beloved OS to the masses. I’m sad now. What a screw up.

      • yungdineroGuest 5 years ago

        Just to put this out there:
        IMO…If you want to play games on your phone and your aren’t smart enough to follow simple online directions to root your phone, and store game apps on your SD card, then you don’t need to be playing games. Instead, you need to invest your time in learning how to use a computer or learning to follow written/video instructions. Its just a matter of time before more ROMs come out for Android 2.0,

        Or you can get an iPhone, but then that basically functions as an iPod Touch because of AT&T’s service… but I digress.

  2. ZackGGuest 5 years ago

    This is very disheartening to hear that Motorola made this big of a mistake, you would think that they would be watching the premier Android, The G1, and realize that if they are going to upgrade it to Android 2.0 or have any type of gaming interface that they will need to supercharge the power and size of this little device. Im glad to see that they put a great GPU but the size of the ROM sucks.. and with the size of memory now, having 2GB+ of storage in a phone shouldnt be that big of a deal. I mean hell, iPhone is selling an 8GB unit for $199. Please phone manufacturers STEP UP YOUR GAME!!!!!

    • StanGuest 5 years ago

      Agree. Instead of just creating a device that will go “head-to-head” with others on the market. Create something that will crush them. Motorola missed the mark. Hopefully HTC will blow everyone away with that 1gHz Snapdragon coming out. I’ll wait for that before upgrading.

    • RyanHGuest 5 years ago

      No, Apple is selling an 8GB iPhone for $99 — that’s the older model. For $199 you get the latest 16GB 3Gs. For $299, you get a 32GB version. I’ve heard the Droid will be $199. While I understand these prices don’t reflect actual cost (it’s subsidized, of course), these are the “sticker prices” as far as customers are concerned. So, for $199, your choice is a 0.5GB Droid where all of the apps run in a slow Java interpreter vs a 16GB iPhone with natively compiled apps. That’s a 30x advantage for app storage on the iPhone along with substantially faster performance and, IMO, better looking hardware and UI. Good luck, Moto and Verizon. You’ll need it.

    • mygoldensGuest 5 years ago

      No one cares about games!

  3. Thiago GalloGuest 5 years ago

    Developers can easily create a big game for android. They can put in the apk only some resources and .dex, when the user lunches the game for the first time the game downloads from internet into SD the game contents like sound and textures. The full game don’t need to be in app storage area.

    • KenGuest 5 years ago

      Storing essential app data on the SD card is a flawed work-around. The app would then have to know how to handle when the SD card is not present, removed midway though to application loop, etc.

      • davidjspoonerGuest 5 years ago

        that’s simple – if the memory card is absent at the start of the game then don’t start. if the user removes the memory card halfway through the game then crash and display a message to the user that they are an idiot.

        • StanGuest 5 years ago

          Too complex for the average user. They will label it as a “device malfunction” and return it to the carrier. In which case the device manufacturer gets burned by high rate of returns. It has to be stupidly simple. It’s all about drop dead simple usability. It should all be transparent to the user. They shouldn’t have to worry about an SD card. It should just work.

          • TimGuest 5 years ago

            You know what else is ‘too complex’ for the average user? Pulling out the freaking sd card in the first place (i mean you have to remove the battery cover to get to it)! And by the way, apps like the camera already rely on the SD card and give an error if it becomes unavailable, so your point about it causing people to return it for ‘device errors’ makes no sense.

          • WadeGuest 5 years ago

            Sorry, but that’s a huge stretch. Removing the SD card while playing a game would be stupidly difficult, and you should expect to see an error if you do. The same goes for launching an app without the SD card inserted. The Droid comes with a 16gb card, the average “stupid user” probably won’t even know where it is.

          • nomelGuest 5 years ago

            yeah…since you have to remove the battery to get the flash drive out…i’m sure they’ll label it as a device malfunction. “I pulled the battery out while i was playing this game and the stupid phone turned off! i thought this thing was supposed to be powered off of the intarnet!”

        • SeanGuest 5 years ago

          “if the user removes the memory card halfway through the game then crash and display a message to the user that they are an idiot.”

          Hahaha :) That would be pretty damn funny. Although I don’t think it’s possible anyways since on most phones I believe it’s below the battery.

        • Name (required)Guest 5 years ago

          I think that’s not an issue. That can be managed by smart programming. The executable code resides in internal memory and data on the sd card once the program launches. So if the user removes the sd card in the middle of the game and tries to run the game again, the games just starts from the beginning default and cleans ups the mess automatically. The pure exe is not touched only data is being written during the game which is disposable data…

      • CJGuest 5 years ago

        How do you remove the SD card without removing the battery and turning off the phone?

        • Anton SpaansGuest 5 years ago

          That’s easy on the G1.
          Slide out the keyboard, open the ledge under the green ‘call’ button and remove the sd-card.

          • Andrew DempseyGuest 5 years ago

            Anyone who is smart enough to pull the SD card out is smart enough to realize it should go back in. Are we now going to argue that sim cards are bad because users could remove them and wonder why their calls dropped or they have no contacts?

      • Zachary RoyerGuest 5 years ago

        The battery must be removed in order to remove the MicroSD card.

      • krazee daveGuest 5 years ago

        have you really removed your SD card in mid ANYTHING, that is such an ignorant observation. Your SD card is BEHIND your battery. YOU do not regularly remove it. Storing items, APPS .apks etc on the SD card free up internal memory, you do not store your home screen, widgets, or other startup items. Games work just fine off the SD card, the new APPS2SD feature of froyo 2.2 works very well. I have had it on my and my wifes android for about a month. I run 235 apps on my android and most are on the SD card not the phone and no issues. Sure if you purely want an idiot resistant phone the current setup is not suited for you, but if you want an idiot resistant phone you probably need the jitterbug phone with only 3 big buttons.
        iPhone lovers or trend followers will do what they will, but the open nature of the android OS makes is a lower priced, easier to upgrade, more open free, and in the long better OS than iOS can ever be. The nature of how it is done mandates that. Whenever the freedom of creativity is over controlled you get less productivity. Most small creative companies find this out when they get bought out by large cumbersome companies. Apple has struggled with this for years, that is why steve came out of re-firement. The iPhone is a perfectly fine phone, it does not though nor will it have the open source android enjoys.

  4. Keith CirkelGuest 5 years ago

    This isn’t so much of an issue as you claim. If you look at the largest games on the market such as Doom, it downloads the necessary files to the SD card. While this isn’t perhaps an ideal scenario, it does not inherently limit a developer from releasing a game over the small sizes of the internal ROMs.

    Don’t get me wrong though, I’d love this to push more and more handset devs to release phones with the sizes that of the iPhone. 16gb on-board + 16gb micro-sd sounds very promising. :)

  5. Anton SpaansGuest 5 years ago

    What about games that download their contents (levels/maps, objects, images, sounds, textures, etc) to the SD-card?
    As long as the executable is not too large, this should work, shouldn’t it?

  6. TomGuest 5 years ago

    This was the biggest concern over the past few weeks as every outlet who was spewing specs didn’t say how much ROM this had on it. A tremendous fail if Google/Verizon/Motorola was going after the mass market with this device – which I’m sure they were if they were targeting iphone with the marketing. Apps are getting larger by the minute. it won’t be too long before this handset is obsolete. How did 3 huge companies miss this foul up?????

    • Brian WardGuest 5 years ago

      I think it is a balance. Seems to me most of these PDA’s have a shelf life of 6 months if it is a great phone. Something better is always right around the corner. If they put too much ROM/RAM into these phones at this stage it will force the prices up and the profit down and the planned obsolescence the carriers enjoy will be lessened. The iPhone has been the exception because it was relatively unique during its first two years or so.

    • BrantGuest 5 years ago

      Well, hindsite is 20/20, but of course googles answer to the market was android 2.2. The thing is when you have an Open Source OS, everyone can propose features, so it was only a matter of time before a flaw was fixed with a solution, Same reason Linux progresses in leaps and bounds, Open Open Open, even Microsoft is ‘opening’ up as much as possible. But i DO love my 8GB + 16GB DroidX =D

  7. nEx.SoftwareGuest 5 years ago

    To those offering up the idea of storing game content to the SD Card. Yes, that is certainly possible but makes things much, much more difficult. It adds a whole level of complexity in making sure that the content is where you expect it to be, that it is the content that you expect it to be and not something else, that ALL of the content is there (you don’t want to find out when you need a resource that you need to go download it again)…

    Oh and then you have to deal with the “WTF? I uninstalled this game, why is it still taking up 100MB on my SD Card?” Yes, it is simple to go ahead and delete the content but this is not what the user is accustomed to, and therefore will likely not keep up on it, or may not know what they should or should not delete.

    In my opinion, it’s just not good because you have basically no control over the SD Card.

    • I hate apps that unnecessarily download things to the SD card. The other day some app downloaded a whole bunch of userpics to my card then when I opened Pixel Pipe to send an upload there were all these random dude’s faces. Not cool.

      • TreyGuest 5 years ago

        And what did you do? I bet you just deleted the crap on your SD card. That’s what I would do…then wonder later why my game wasn’t work. Agree with @stan. It shouldn’t be this hard for the user. The user shouldn’t even have to think about it. It’s a massive usability goof on Motorola’s (and partly on Google’s) part.

        • Anton SpaansGuest 5 years ago

          If the images of an app are visible to your phone’s Gallery and the sounds to the ringtone and music libaries, then the app-developer has done something wrong.

          The app can download media to the SD-card without them becoming visible to the rest of the system. It’s easy! The app just needs to download them to a directory whose name begins with a period. E.g. “/sdcard/myapp/.images”

          Then the user won’t be able to delete them either. :)

  8. Roberto SerranoGuest 5 years ago

    Sorry Taylor,

    But you got this a bit wrong. Nothing is stopping a developer from placing content to an app in the sdcard, much like the camera app places pictures in the sdcard, or world tour keeps thumbnails of the webcam views for the selection menu.

    In other words, this is encouraging developers from making nimble apps, that make creative use of the net after the app is running. A game developer could create a game that downloads the next level into the sdcard, in between levels, or while you are playing.

    The 256MB is probably been set so that the quality of the user experience doesn’t degrade as bad as it has been happening with 1.6 and below.

  9. Mike11Guest 5 years ago

    Yes, there are workarounds. But they create all kinds of problems like mentioned above. Since a much bigger ROM is pricey, I hope Android will allow to install applications on external memory in the near future. Especially if Gaming becomes a bigger part on the platform.

    And on an unrelated note, give Android devices more RAM please ;)

  10. Rhynos AndroidGuest 5 years ago

    so my question is this… how is it Googles fault? it’s the handset mfg’s issue, last i checked Google offers up the OS, not the hardware.
    it is an issue, but lets put blame where blame is due and maybe it won’t happen again, although i think we know better than that.
    me, i’m going to root and go cyan, they’ve made it so easy i would be a fool not to.

    • BoGuest 5 years ago

      If Google would let app to be installed on the sdcard, then problems all solved. Why not? Piracy.

      If they found a new way to protect paid applications, installing on sdcard might be permitted. I thought this is easy for a device like mobile phone, which is always online and the user’s identity is binded, but have no idea why they don’t do that.

      • DerekGuest 5 years ago

        You are absolutely correct. Google doesnt want you going to the Android Marketplace, paying $4.99 for an app, downloading it to your SD card, then taking it out and putting it in your computer and copying it to hundreds of your friends SD cards. So because they are trying to penny pinch, we as consumers get hosed. I will never buy an Android phone that doesnt either A) let you store apps on SD cards, or B) come with much more ROM for storage of programs/apps.

        This is one area where iphone kicks their butts. My old first gen iphone has 8GB’s of space to store apps. I have over 50 apps on my phone, lets see an Android phone do that!

        • mcvGuest 5 years ago

          If it’s Android that’s the problem, then can’t it be fixed? It’s Open Source, right? Can we fix this limitation in Android and replace the OS?

        • Durr HurrGuest 5 years ago

          Yeah totally! Just like how the iPhone lets you store all your apps directly on the SD card. Oh wait…the iPhone doesn’t HAVE an SD card! Crap!

        • CheckmateGuest 5 years ago

          Google isn’t Apple. When a Developer makes an app, Google doesn’t take 30% off the top like Apple does. Google is trying to protect the Developer’s money, not their own.

        • nickGuest 5 years ago

          i currently have 113 apps downloaded to my droid totaling 2.85 gb…being said….mose is stored on sd card….withe .exe stored in phone…never had any problem operating a game or any other app for that matter. and second….if anyone wants games that are 1g or higher….or anygame thats gonna be played for hours at a time you should be looking elsewhere…yes a phone is capable of it…but why?

      • Rhynos AndroidGuest 5 years ago

        i wasn’t referring to being able to DL to the sd card. i was referring to the built in memory. the iPhone doesn’t even use sd cards, yet due to the avail memory ON THE HARDWARE there aren’t any worrys.
        once again, why is this googles fault, you’re paying the same amnt for a phone with only a fraction of the memory avail… and as far as dedroid is concerned, the iPhone doesn’t even allow for an sd card, so nothing for google to learn, they have th OS dead on, the phone mfgs all need to understand it’s not the 90′s anymore, our phones use more memory than the HDD on my first 2 computers COMBINED (and that’s not counting my commodore 64 or 128!)

        • DerekGuest 5 years ago

          Read the freaking article. It is Google’s fault. They refuse to allow applications to be stored and run from the SD card. This is so, because they are so worried about piracy. Plain and simple.

          Because if you stored apps on the SD card, you could remove the card and copy them to a computer thus distributing them for free.

          Stop drinking the Google koolaid, this is their issue and they dont want to fix it.

          • Pankaj GodboleGuest 5 years ago

            As far as saving apps to an SD card goes, as a developer I would not want my paid-app to be bought once and then be distributed willy-nilly. By not allowing apps to be stored on the SD card, perhaps Google has addressed this scenario of ‘piracy’.
            If Android phones are to truly compete against the game-changing iPhone, they would DEFINITELY need to provide at least at much in-built memory as an iPhone with the least amount of such memory (8GB). Therefore, I think the larger issue lies with the phone manufacturer by providing a measly 256MB of in-built memory.

          • TydizGuest 5 years ago

            Storing apps on the SD Card isn’t really the viable solution either, in my opinion. I’m sure all who have rooted their phones and have Apps to SD know that its not a solution for the faint of heart. It just becomes too easy to ‘F’ up the SD Card, especially for the lower ended users.

          • LOLGuest 5 years ago

            There are ALWAYS ways to reverse-engineer definite parts of the universe. Android apps fall into this domain. A software lock on apps being thrown onto SD cards to prevent piracy is absurd.

            If Google does not allow apps to be downloaded to tertiary memory for this reason (which I doubt) well… that is … absurd..

  11. JaimeGuest 5 years ago

    What people fail to realize is that games usually take on a different sense in that all of the file are not store in the same archive, the executable in this case could be as small at 50K that runs all of the other data from the SD card (that is 100% possible without rooting the device) it is linux guys. as for the rooting of the phone. I can promise within 5 months the phone will be rooted and the how-to guide will be flying out of the woodwork. No preaching about the added security here either. you can hack anything given enough time.

    • JamesGuest 5 years ago

      Regular “non techie” folks are not going to root. And with all the Android devices, networks, storage sizes, manufacturers out there; how can a developer know how much of an SD card to allocate…and if a user even has an SD card. As a developer I thought the whole “Android fragmentation” stuff being slung around was a non issue. But now I’m seeing it come into play. Heck, even Sprint came out this week and said they have no way to update folks to Android 2.0. How do these huge companies make these huge mistakes?????

  12. DerekGuest 5 years ago

    This really blows! I have an iphone now, which I love. But I hate the AT&T network and customer service. So I was really wanting one of these Droids to switch to VZW network. But heck, if you only get 256MB of ROM to store programs in, thats garbage! And yes, this is entirely Google’s fault. It clearly says that Google will not allow apps to be stored outside of the ROM.

    • naguzGuest 5 years ago

      Your iPhone doesn’t allow you to run apps from otuside the ROM either. In fact, it has nothing outside the ROM. There simply is no sd slot. It is entirely the phone manufacturers fault.

      However, there is no need for apps to be big. All GPS programs for WinMo and Android store their data on sd cars. Most game for WinMo has always done this. The problem is negligible, unless reading speed becomes a problem. But RAM becomes a problem long before that happens.

      • DerekGuest 5 years ago

        Stop arguing who’s fault it is. Google imposed this restriction, the blame lies with them.

        You’re pulling a democrat trick, by arguing about who’s at fault you’re trying to hide the fact that the problem still exists and will not be fixed anytime soon. Who wants to go out and buy an expensive smart phone then immediately have to “root” it? Taking that huge chance of bricking the phone and voiding your warranty. All you android fanbois just man up and admit this is a serious shortcoming that will hold back sales.

        • Daniel GlasserGuest 5 years ago

          You’re completely off base, and I’m offended by your injecting politics into this.

          The reason Google doesn’t allow loading apps off of removable media is quite simple: Security best practices. If an external device contains a hidden trojan, it could infect the phone if the OS allowed executable content on the SD card. Do you want to have to run Anti-Virus code on your phone, sapping the rather limited resources in even the most powerful of handsets?

          Yes, it’s a limitation imposed by Google. The manufacturer chose to provide a limited internal non-volatile memory storage in this go-around. It is unlikely to cause too many people too many problems, and memory can be upgraded in the product line if Verizon sees that 256MB is insufficient.

          I can tell you from direct experience that many of the critical systems that control the displays on modern aircraft (commercial and military) have far less non-volatile memory that programs can be stored in.

          If it so offends you to have this limitation imposed, wait until someone roots the phone, then go ahead and mount it with execute permissions. Don’t blame me if someone trashes the phone with malware, though. Also, don’t blame me if Verizon comes after you (once your phone is infected) and either cancels your service or charges you $$$$ for the 1-900 calls that your phone keeps making to Russia; this “auto-dialer” malware has been seen on PCs with voice modems in the past, and (I think) one or two Symbian or WinCE phones…

    • Zachary RoyerGuest 5 years ago

      It is because of Google that Android will not allow apps to be stored outside of the ROM. It is NOT because of Google that Motorola failed to put out a product with sufficient space for a usable phone. Google has good intentions with restricting apps to the ROM, and Motorola was expected to work with that restriction, and build more memory into the phone. It’s not 100% Google’s fault or 100% Motorola’s fault, they’re both to blame for not working together.

  13. ChrisGuest 5 years ago

    Custom Android Roms have been running their Apps on the SD card for sometime now with no ill effects. It’s just disappointing that Google can’t get their stuff straight.

    • DanielGuest 5 years ago

      Is the phone usable while working as USB storage? What happens if you take out the SD card? I haven’t used apps2sd yet for concerns like this, that FAQs seem to always forget to mention.

      • naguzGuest 5 years ago

        Yes, it is. Access to the sdcard-partition on the sd card (ie. the FAT partition apps sees as the physical sd card) is denied on the phone, just like in the default android. The Apps2SD (ext2/3/4) partition is still accessible to the phone though, and programs on it continue to function without problems.
        If you want tp take the sdcard out physically, you must shut down your phone first. But why would you need to do that?

    • JamesGuest 5 years ago

      Amen brother. Google needs to take a note from the hackers producing custom ROMS instead of sending them cease and desist orders. We all know the guy I’m talking about ;) He could straighten this whole thing out in a jif. Why can’t a monster like Google. It’s said to say but is this whole thing starting to mirror the direction Windows Mobile took back in the day? Now Microsoft is even partnering with select device manufactures to avoid fragmentation. I thought Google was smarter but I think they’re tripping over themselves now just to get the product out to market. This is not the way to go about mass adoption though!

  14. TrevorGuest 5 years ago

    What kinds of problems would storing app data separately from the app itself cause? That’s been happening in the PC world for decades and it works fine. Better, even, because it gives people access to the data (so they can mod it, for example). And, speaking as a programmer, the logic to grab the data is not very complex. If it adds significantly to the complexity of your app, your app must be really simple.

    I agree it’s a stupid limitation, but I really don’t see this being an actual issue for users in the near future.

  15. SpacecadetGuest 5 years ago

    I read that the sony ericson xperia x3/x10 has 32gb internal storage. Could this be app space ?

  16. dedroidGuest 5 years ago

    Google and Motorola are fools. Can you not look at the success of the iPhone and see where it differs vs. Android? The app store is so successful because users have TONS of space to store the apps. The lack of built in storage has always been Androids weak spot and will continue to be so thanks to Google and Motorola.

    • TonyaGuest 5 years ago

      Agree with @dedroid. If Motorola was looking to regain market share and take some of the crown from Apple, they should have put onboard storage in there.

  17. mcdiseaseGuest 5 years ago

    I read somewhere that Apple’s demand for 8/16/32 gig flash roms exceeds production. There may be some sort of supply problem other manufacturers are having in getting these chips.

    http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20091015/worldwide-demand-for-iphone-3gs-outstripping-supply/?mod=ATD_rss

  18. Zacqary Adam GreenGuest 5 years ago

    You mean the SD card isn’t internal flash for all intents and purposes? I mean, it’s certainly in the interior of my phone right now. Sure, it’s easy to remove, but so is the battery, and the phone can’t function without that?

    • Daniel GlasserGuest 5 years ago

      SD cards are more like hard drives than memory, and not directly addressable. The 256MB of internal Flash is most likely NOR Flash, which can be addressed directly (like RAM), whereas the SD card is accessed in blocks (typically NAND Flash). There is also CRAM that uses phase change materials, but this is not yet available in the GB densities needed for larger internal storage.

  19. TomGuest 5 years ago

    The bottom line is speed – which games and other apps need to take advantage of. Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files. And what’s to stop the average schmuck from going on their SD card and saying “WTF is this directory, I didn’t put it there” Delete. Now they’re screwed.

    Unfortunately, I have to give it to Apple. They got it right for the masses – the non tech folks. zip the entire app in one piece and put it on onboard storage. Its wrapped in a nice package which is quick to pull and doesn’t rely on a data connection to download new levels, more content, etc. Road warriers that spend half their life on planes – aka Blackberry users – do not always have data access when they need it. If Motorola was going after RIM, they should’ve thought this through and opted for ‘some’ onboard storage. maybe 16gig at least.

    • Anton SpaansGuest 5 years ago

      >>”Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files”<<

      Not necessarily true. I'm a developer and my experience is that my phone's SD-card is faster than the 'phone-memory'.
      My app writes and reads a large temporary file. Storing this file on the SD-card was faster (writing way faster, reading only a little faster) than on the phone-memory. My G1 has a class 6 SD-card, though.

    • Anton SpaansGuest 5 years ago

      >>”Onboard files will always be accessed faster than SD files”<<

      Not necessarily true. On my G1 writing and reading large files (especially writing) is much faster on my SD-card than on my phone-memory. My app does this and writing a large file on my SD-card (class 6) was almost twice as fast.

  20. mobile brazzersGuest 5 years ago

    Guys its as simple as this-

    Until Google/Android get on the ball and either allow us to install apps to the SD card, or new phones start coming out with Gigs of internal space, rather than Mb..

    ANDROID GAMES WILL SUCK

    they suck pretty bad now, its been a year of the Android market, and we’re still sitting on a market full of mostly amateur junk.

    Why Google is dropping the ball on what is likely people’s 2nd or 3rd favorite use of a smartphone is beyond me.. try showing off an Android phone and then have your iFriend load up the Vans Off The Wall skateboarding game on his iPhone. There’s simply no contest, and they gotta get on this quick.

  21. WilliamGuest 5 years ago

    What I don’t get is how Verizon has the audacity to claim that the Droid has 16GB of internal storage (droiddoes.com, click “Photos”). Is that not blatant false advertising? The only place that confirms the onboard storage is only 256MB is Motorola’s developer site. Everywhere else says 16GB, some places not even mentioning that this is removable.

  22. FrankGuest 5 years ago

    @William I agree. It’s clearly false advertising on Verizon’s part. There is alot of talk on Twitter about it. I think only techies have picked up on it unfortunately. I think Verizon is going to see alot of these things coming back when people max out that storage with apps.

    Google – why didn’t you fix this in Android 2.0???????????????

    • nEx.SoftwareGuest 5 years ago

      I asked this very question to Motorola (MOTODEV) and they seemed unaware that Verizon was marketing it this way. They mentioned they would look into it, but I doubt that will amount to anything.

      • JamesGuest 5 years ago

        Who actually thinks the sales monkeys in the Verizon store even know about this? I’d like to see the blank stare when someone asks them how much memory can be used for apps.

  23. FrankGuest 5 years ago

    Well stated @mobilebrazzers. As a developer I’m extremely concerned that Small ROM space/requirement has handcuffed developers so they will not be able to compete with iPhone developers and it will ultimately restrict mass market adoption as people will max out that storage limit rather quickly AND they may be returning Android devices in droves when they sidle up to their iFriend and see all the great apps (aka 3D games) that aren’t available on Android. Why the heck did Motorola put a great processor in the droid only to be limited by Google’s storage fail?? I shake my head in amazement that 3 multimillion dollar companies — Verizon, Motorola, & Google — let this happen.

    • DerekGuest 5 years ago

      I agree. How could THREE huge companies with thousands of brilliant engineers drop the ball on this?

      I have a 1st gen 8GB iphone that I love. And it works flawlessly. I have a couple friends who have Android phones. And to do even half the stuff that I can do, they have to hack it, root it, ect. It frustrates them to no end. There is absolutely no way in heck that Google/Android will ever take even a nibble out of Apple’s market share until they have a phone that just plain flat out works smoothly like the iphone. And it sucks because I hate AT&T and so badly want off them, but there is not a single phone that can even hold the iphone’s jock strap. Plain and simple, if you dont think so you are just an iphone hater.

    • Durr HurrGuest 5 years ago

      You guys are either paid shills, lying about being Android developers, idiots, or all three.

      If you were really developers, you would understand that THERE IS NO MEMORY LIMITATION. Android apps can write information to the SD card. This is no different than a Windows app writing information to a different directory than to the one in which it is installed. The only thing that has to be stored in the internal memory is the base executable (in order to prevent piracy), and that can be extremely tiny.

      The bottom line is that none of this makes any difference at all to the end user. 99% of non-techie users will never remove their SD card once it is installed. Apps and games can be huge (just like on the iPhone). You can store hundreds of apps. They are not limited in any way by the 256MB internal memory. Now stop lying and trying to make a big deal out of this absolute non-issue.

      • DerekGuest 5 years ago

        Um, you’re the one thats crazy. You can ONLY store the apps to the phone’s ROM. Right now apps are averaging 4-6MB, and thats for simple little apps like sports score checkers, twitter clients etc. Games… those are huge some are in the hundreds of MB’s. So how do you figure you can store “hundreds of apps to the phone”? Get off the koolaid.

        On my iphone I have about 50 apps, and they range in size from around 600KB all the way up to over 250MB. All told I’m using over 2GB of memory on apps. Droid would never be able to do this, without rooting it or running some unapproved OS that could brick the phone or void the warranty.

        What you people fail to realize is maybe its fine for the “geeks” or “techies” to have to root the phone and do all this other crap to get apps on the SD card, but the majority of phone users are not those kind of poeple. They want to download the app, and run it, and run lots of them. Thats why an Android phone will never touch the iphone in sales or user experience. The iphone blows away anything else in the marketplace for ease of use and interface. Plain and simple. I have one and I would kill to get my iphone on a good network like verizon, AT&T blows badly.

      • SeanGuest 5 years ago

        Thank you for your comment. I think it seals my decision. I think a GB on on board storage would have been better (isn’t it dirt cheap?). I don’t think Motorola could be as stupid as these people are saying. Does placing the executable on the phone and data or hard drive mean that the phone is then protected from malware?
        Thanks Sean

  24. DanGuest 5 years ago

    What a major fail. I was all set to jump on the Droid but am now rethinking my plans and will probably, reluctantly, join the iPhone bandwagon. When will companies ever learn? Remember the old days when DOS was restricted to 64 MB? Microsoft never imagined anyone would ever need more than that. Deja vu.

  25. Roland StoneGuest 5 years ago

    Palm OS (not WebOS) allowed running apps from the SDCard. Piracy was not an issue because the sophisticated developers incorporated registration codes that recognized a particular phone’s ID. But I agree with earlier posts that developers with any smarts will know how to write a game that installs in less than 5 megs but draws its graphics, sounds and other large data streams from the SD card.

  26. FlarnGuest 5 years ago

    This is a non issue. Executables are tiny, and storing program data and libraries in a separate location from the EXE is extremely common. It will all be handled behind the scenes by the programs and their installers. Even the uninstallers will know to delete data off the SD card. This is simple 1st year programming stuff. Stop spreading the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. No one “dropped the ball”. It’s just Apple fanboys who reek of desperation that their favorite toy is going to be made obsolete. Get over it.

    • DerekGuest 5 years ago

      HA!! Maybe when there’s an android phone that you can go and install a 750MB 3D video game and play it flawlessly, or have a phone that has full multi-touch for zooming, navigating, cut and paste, etc. Or have a phone that doesnt require some little 16GB SD card.

      There isnt an android phone out there that has better hardware than the iphone 3gs, including the Droid. They both have the same processor, and dedicated GPU. Iphone 3Gs has 32GB of internal ROM to be used anyway you see fit though. Android doesnt. iphone has 100,000 apps, android doesnt. iphone apps work flawlessly because there’s only one type of hardware that they have to run on, android doesnt. Theres dozens of android hardware combinations, just like the PC world vs Mac.

      So when you say the iphone will be obsolete you are smoking crack loser. iphone has 30% of the smartphone market in 2 years, android has been out for a year and has what? 1%. Yea, i see the iphone being obsolete (NOT!) And wait until the next gen iphone comes out next july, it will smoke anything out there running android. The best android phone out now, including droid, already is not as good as the current gen iphone.

    • nEx.SoftwareGuest 5 years ago

      Umm… There is no facility for an Android application to take part in its own un-installation and therefore it cannot cleanup after itself. Not sure where you got that idea. You obviously know very little about how Android applications are managed by the system (in terms of install and uninstall). It is incredibly rudimentary… Install = Move file to install path and create its data path (on internal storage), notify system that it is there and determine it’s publicly exposed capabilities; Uninstall = Delete file and its data path (on internal storage), notify system it is no longer there.

  27. NickGuest 5 years ago

    Personally I don’t see what the big deal is. Gaming still hasn’t caught on with Android at all. There are no devices out there powerful enough to really do anything decent. I’ve found most of the games suck and the few that I do have and like are relatively small files anyway.

    I can easily see this thing rooted within 3-4 weeks upon release. And devs are getting smarter about having data stored on the SD card. (Again, rooting is not needed for this)

    What it comes down to really is that the Devs need to get a bit more creative and not be so lazy and make it work. Work with what you have. Simple as that.

    • nEx.SoftwareGuest 5 years ago

      LOL, feel free to start developing Mr. Quit-Being-Lazy.

      And to be completely honest, I believe that the hardware capabilities of Android devices are not really what is holding back game developers. I’d venture a guess that it’s very much to do there being very little chance for ROE.

    • WilliamGuest 5 years ago

      But thats the thing. The Droid is supposed to have the necessary hardware (decent processor and discrete GPU) to do gaming – I have seen a lot of comparisons to the capabilities of the PSP and the Touch. Combine that with the expected increase in adoption of Android that should result from Verizon’s marketing push, and you now have a user base that has the ability to run games, which should make the Droid attractive to game developers, but without the internal memory to support it. These new users mostly are not going to be rooting their devices, and if the risk of people removing or altering game files on the card is too high, it just isn’t going to happen. I think the Droid was the best chance for Android to really get a foothold, and the low memory blew it.

      Yes, I am a little bit bitter that my Droid is going to have half the memory of my ten year old Palm Pilot.

      • DerekGuest 5 years ago

        As well you should be bitter. What is a MB now days anyways, we’ve been using GB’s and TB’s for years now, and motorola makes a brand new “state of the art” phone that only has 512MB ROM for OS and apps, thats laughable and completely embarrassing to the entire android culture.

      • CoryGuest 5 years ago

        As well you should be bitter. Of the same mind here. If Motorola would have put onboard storage on the Droid, you would have seen EA, Glu, etc jumping at the chance to make games for Android.

        The issue with even offloading some of the app to storage is a huge fail. What’s to stop a non-techie user from seeing some weird folder on his SD card and just deleting it.

        The entire app needs to be wrapped in one package to streamline ease of use for the consumer and ease of development (and adoption) for the developer.

        Get with it Google!

    • DerekGuest 5 years ago

      The reason games havent caught on is because the games out there SUCK! have you seen android games? They look like Atari 2600 games, all blocky and cheesy. Have you seen iphone games? They look awesome, like PS2 games. HUGE difference. Thats why games havent caught on.

  28. richardGuest 5 years ago

    What about for those snes and sega emulators….. i notice you have to download the roms off other websites cause you cant download of the marketplace… do those take up alot of space???

    • JohnGuest 5 years ago

      Downloading roms is illegal unless you own the game, while distributing an emulator is not. That’s why you can’t get the roms in the marketplace.

      • MikeGuest 5 years ago

        It’s illegal to download a ROM to a game you own, you are only legally allowed to rip the ROM image yourself.

  29. Brian RedbanGuest 5 years ago

    Here is a commerical I made about this Android Problem:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz0PyAY4tCc&feature=player_embedded

    :)

  30. jensenGuest 5 years ago

    Kevin Dill, a spookesmann from Google ?

    http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/29/here-are-all-the-great-android-games-the-answer-is-simpler-than-we-think/

    We have a partial solution at this time to some of the Android storage woes.

    Remote file storage is available for the Android which emulates local storage for predominantly multimedia.

    We offer that service at Android Storage. We are working on technology and an app which will actually allow apps to be stored completely remote and then be “temped” to the phone via a stream and operated under a master app.

    That will be coming before spring.

    This changes the playing field and allows devices to fully take advantage of “virtually” unlimited app and storage memory with the improvements in 3G, 4G, and WIFI availability.

    First lag, then storage… next topic ;-)

    • JimGuest 5 years ago

      Irrelevant!! This should be out now if us developers wanted to crush the Apple machine. Why the heck is Google reinventing the wheel. Just partner with handset manufacturers that are willing to put onboard storage in place from the rip!!!

      So how is this “game changing” storage “solution” going to help the millions of early adopters of Android. Answer: It won’t. Because now Android is fragmented all over the place. Different versions running on different carriers (Sprint openly admitted that they don’t even have an Android update ability yet. It’s on this blog) with different storage space…. Why didn’t Google take a clue from Windows Mobile. Microsoft – and HTC this week – said they are scaling back on the number of variances of devices so they can concentrate on quality and service. Google…watch and learn.

    • How is that “game changing”?? Its not, its a crappy alternative to just putting more ROM in the phones. Whats the big deal here?

      Who wants to store their apps on some google server, then when ever you want to run it you have to stream it to your phone over 3G every single time? That sucks! Just the idea that Google came up with this “Android Storage” idea shows that they realize they have a problem, a huge problem actually.

      • moondogGuest 5 years ago

        It is called “spin” and “damage control”. The “solution” is insulting and relies on consumers being stupid and apathetic to the issue.

  31. JohnGuest 5 years ago

    Myst is only 534 MB. The developer trimmed the size with an update back in June. Still won’t fit, though!

  32. moondogGuest 5 years ago

    Rooting is NOT the answer. The industry will not increase app development for the 2% of people that go through the effort of rooting their devices.

    This must be an OS revision that allows virtual space on the SD and part of the SDK.

    • TobyGuest 5 years ago

      Agree!!! Just like Cydia iPhone apps will never reach the mass market distribution that App Store apps will. It has to be transparent to the most basic user. Android is really stumbling with this. I personally thing Google themselves should skin Android and make it so carriers can’t mess with it. Roll that into the Google Experience agreement. They would need to hire an incredibly talented UI crew though. I think Google is too into the nuts and bolts and ignores the UI too much. To the basic user, the UI is huge.

  33. DavidGuest 5 years ago

    What people are missing is the fact that non-techie people will probably forget there is even an SD card there… out of sight, out of mind. Storing game data to the SD card is a very good solution. What you are arguing is similar to saying that the device doesn’t have enough memory because there isn’t enough space to store your entire music library with the music player application.

    Programming an application to do this is incredibly simple.
    1) check to see if the art you are about to display is in the one-and-only location that it should be. if so, copy it to RAM.
    2) if not (or if the SD card is not present), download it to RAM, and write it to the SD (if present) when you get a chance.
    3) proceed with the RAM copy.

    This gives you the option of playing on a full-streaming basis if you don’t have an SD card or it is full, while still caching the assets if possible. In-game options should modify this behavior to the users preferences.

    If you unplug a hard drive while playing a game on your PC… you should expect bad things to happen. Likewise for the SD card. No well-written executable should take more than a few MBs. For reference, the executable for Visual Studio 2008 with all it’s dll’s is under 40 MB. ALL of the executable code for all of Microsoft Office 2007 Professional is 268 MB. Game clients can run as little as 10 MB… they are all about the assets. But remember, these are full-featured desktop applications with years of coding behind them. I don’t expect to find anything near the feature set of a desktop application on a mobile phone (i.e. where would you cram MS Office’s ribbon bar, even on a wxvga screen? That’s a lot of code, though).

    There are very few applications out there that should take more than 1 MB of space. Those that do are almost certainly loaded down with data files that can and should be stored on the SD card. If you bought a game only to find out that it would only run on computers with 32 GB of RAM, you would return it. Similarly, if you buy an android game that requires 100+ MB of internal memory and stores nothing on the SD card, it’s a badly written game, not anything against the platform.

    It’s the developer’s responsibility to write applications to fit the platform they are given. This is doubly true for embedded system development. When specs have to be tightly controlled to squeeze everything possible into as small a space as possible, compromises always have to be made. Android’s chosen compromise is to give the user the ability to exchange memory cards rather than locking it all internally. There’s simply not room to add in an extra set of internal memory without making the device bigger and clunkier, using a smaller battery, or other compromise that is less tenable than just telling developers to store application data in a location separate from their actual application.

    The only thing I’d like to see changed is that there should be a default directory, akin to “Application Data” or “Program Files” that will alert the user that this is information they need to leave alone. All program data would be stored in subdirectories below there. There may already be a best practice established for this reason.

    • Derek R-CGuest 5 years ago

      Amen @David. I think this flaw is getting blown way out of proportion. Someone can still program Myst to play on an android machine. I think this will end up having the usability of a partitioned hard drive. You will keep all of your system files and exe in one memory location and all the other files on the external memory.

      Yes this is still a flaw and NEEDS to be fixed in the future. However, this flaw is definitely not going to stop me from buying the phone.

    • MJlongGuest 5 years ago

      I agree with 95% of your point, but internal flash memory is small, and light. How has an iPhone grown (in terms of memory capacity) 4x in two years, added radios, etc w/o massive girth expansion? BTW, no software update will address internal memory. It COULD allow downloads to be stored on removable memory. Google won’t.

  34. steveGuest 5 years ago

    I am so surprised that Android 2.0 still has this limitation. My experience with G1 i had is that It is too easy to download multiple applications. My G1 was out-of-memory from the day 1. I will have to delete several installed applications in order to run some other applications. So as a user, I have to constantly think what the next application I need to delete is. So that I would install another cool app. I have this problem with Blackberry as well.

    Another point is that just because installing an app on SD is allowed, does not mean the access permission of the application has to be compromised. the platform still can use Certificate to validate the installed the app even if it is SD.

    So my view is that this is the biggest shortcomings of the Android OS/Phones

  35. andrewGuest 5 years ago

    “You can store files directly on the mobile device or on a removable storage medium.”

    http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html

    • Yea, I dont think anybody is debating that you can store data on the SD card. They’re talking about storing the app itself on the SD card and running it from there. Big difference from just storing data.

  36. moondogGuest 5 years ago

    Droid does NOT have 256 or 512 free for apps. To rub salt in the wound, the OS actually takes some of that space up with the apps with th OS- Browser, maps ,nav, etc.

    Android has known about this problem for over a year and knew about it BEFORE the Droid was in development.

  37. Jason H.Guest 5 years ago

    As a developer of games on multiple platforms this is a deal breaker. Why would I want to spend my time trying to develop for a platform that does not give the user the best experience? For now I am content to continue to focus on iPhone, although the market is getting saturated with poorly written games and other apps, anytime a team is able to prove themselves to be better than the herd they are richly awarded. Android fix this issue!! Set some guidelines for your partners!

  38. MJlongGuest 5 years ago

    This very issue has intrigued/frustrated me about Android devices here in the US. Google has certainly gone after the iPhone and its OS; first very quietly, and now quite loudly. Its first phone (HTC G1) was what i consider its prototype, as was selecting T-mobile as its first carrier. The G1 stood alone for — what 8 or 9 months? Not a huge commitment on anyone’s part to push the “open” platform. During that same period of time, Apple and its App store grew to massive proportions, while software developers allowed Android to grow on them. Bear in mind, most early Android apps were free, even after the beta stage had ended. I suspect Google was trying to distance itself from Apple’s capitalist approach (do it OUR way, and nobody rides for free). Despite the G1′s clunky hardware and 1st gen software, the concept of Android caught on, bringing the interest of all 4 major US carriers and phone manufacturers with it.
    Now, here’s where things get a little strange. While no Android phone issued in the US has the capability to load apps on its msd card or internal flash memory sufficient to hold data-hungry apps (to my knowledge, the highest ROM capacity rests at 512MB, with only 256MB or so user-defined), why the hell does everyone in Europe and Asia have access to the Samsung Galaxy i7500/5700 (can’t remember model # – not important)? 8Gb internal plus 32Gb msd rated. WTF!!! Then Sammy brings us its retarded little brothers, the “lite” and behold II, with the same bs antiquated components the G1 and mt3g have- which were old when they launched.
    I apologize for my windy thought trail, but here’s where I’m headed with this. The ability to load 3rd party software on removable memory exists (outside of the US mobile phone market, that is!), and Android phones can certainly be manufactured with ROM that dwarfs its US cousins. The only reason (that flys) why these 2 conditions are not met in the US market is the trail of the Greenbacks… You know, the almighty dollar! Google has very surruptitiously taken the main competitions’ (Apple) model of iTunes and perfected it into a well-oiled cash cow. By keeping the cost off apps low, yet only allowing them to be stored on miniscule internal memory, Google has made it ridiculously painful for someone (w/o great tech saavy, at least) to transfer bought software to any device other than the one it was downloaded to. It’s the McDonald’s approach to software – cheap apps times a bazillion downloads at 50 percent take (total guess here!) for Google, makes it seem like they aren’t “Apple greedy”. But in fact, they’ve been slicker and far less obvious. Think I’m nuts? Just for chuckles, watch Google’s stock the next few months, as the onslaught of new Android handsets hits the market. Better yet, BUY SOME!!

  39. MJlongGuest 5 years ago

    As a final diatribe, I would gladly pay an extra $100 for an Android phone that gives me reasonable internal ROM (at least 2Gb), plus microsd for other files. Said device could’ve been fabricated with components and technology of 2005. How wonderfully Apple-esque.

    • DerekGuest 5 years ago

      I know right? What is the real world price differential between a 512MB ROM chip and a 2GB ROM chip? it cant be much. $25??

  40. CamGuest 5 years ago

    As has been said before the Droid Comes with a 16G Micro SD Card so might as well remove this Page.. nice try Apple on trying to smash the phone thats going to smash you..

    • DerekGuest 5 years ago

      You’re the idiot. You obviously didnt read the article or any of the posts. It doesnt matter if it had a 1 terabyte SD card in it, you cant store or run programs from it without hacking the phone, thus taking a chance on bricking it or at least voiding your warranty from verizon. Now who wants to buy a “state of the art, iphone killer” and then have to go through all hoops to do that?

  41. Gene TurnbowGuest 5 years ago

    With respect to being able to handle the sudden disappearance of the SD card while an app that needs to load assets from it is running, you can relax – in practice, nobody does this and expects anything to work correctly. I believe the SD card is actually UNDER THE BATTERY as well, so you can’t remove the SD card with the phone running in any case.

  42. snorkelGuest 5 years ago

    People please stop calling the internal storage memory ROM, it’s not ROM, ROM means READ ONLY MEMORY, if it was a ROM you would not be able to store stuff on it at all.

  43. MarcGuest 5 years ago

    My issue is that there is an internal memory limit at all. Yes, the primary executables may not take up that much space, but you will run out at some point. Then what do you do? Also, with the bulk of the application’s files being stored on the SD card, what if I choose to buy another card for more such storage? I will have to switch cards out depending upon which application I want to run. And from what people have said, to access the card slot, I will basically need to turn off the phone.

  44. gwlaw99Guest 5 years ago

    So let me get this straight. You are complaining that the Droid’s 16GB card may not be big enough to handle all apps and have to be swapped causing problems, but don’t factor in that the iphone’s memory can’t be removed at all?

    • UMADGuest 5 years ago

      are you fucking dumb? YOU CAN’T STORE APPS ON THE CARD. Read the article again! You can have 1 trillion gigs SD card and you still can’t put more than 256MB worth of apps on your phone.

      On the iPhone you can use the 16/32GBs for apps if you want to!

  45. HamranhansenhansenGuest 5 years ago

    The iPhone brought desktop class Web and native applications to the phone. Everybody else needs to scale up fast. With the Pre, the first thing that disqualified it for me is it had the same storage as my 2 year old iPhone. With Android, the hardware all seems to be out of the pocket calculator heritage of small devices. iPhone is clearly part full-size PC and part iPod, which is not only a more powerful computing heritage but it appeals to more people.

    Google bought Android in 2005 and it was a couple of years old at that time. It’s taking forever for something good to come out of it.

  46. JimGuest 5 years ago

    Well don’t worry, remember, Android is ‘OPEN’ so that means all you developers can fix it all and make everything ok. Good Luck with that iPhone killer, lol. Looks like it was DOA.

  47. RowanGuest 5 years ago

    I thought Android was ‘open’ yet they wouldn’t let me install apps to an SD?

    How do I back up purchased Apps? Can I redownload them on my other phone, or my partners phone, without paying for it a second or third time? I can on the iPhone, one of the things I love.

    Can anyone running Android answer this for me?

  48. BWIGuest 5 years ago

    So I assume internet cache is limited. What a shot in the foot. I have always been a treo user, and memory is limited on the device. If Treo did not allow apps to go on sd cards the treo would go in the trash. 256MB gets sucked up fast…

  49. Droid Does… only have 256MB of storage for apps | Technology you can trust here...Guest 5 years ago

    [...] Download Squad though, and there’s some dismaying news about the Droid on that front: it has only 256MB for app storage. [...]

  50. Android can only use 256mb storage for applicationsGuest 5 years ago

    [...] by Johan on November 10, 2009 Did you know that Android OS 2.0 devices can only store 256 mb of applications? [...]

  51. JohnGuest 5 years ago

    Most android apps are between 1-3 mb, some even smaller. Also, most of the apps only store bootable info on the ROM, and store the remainder of the app data on the SD card. I have 13 apps installed which consist of Pandora, news readers, docs to go etc, and I still have 222 mb of internal storage.

    I don’t see this being a huge issue. This phone for me is about productivity, not a gaming device. I already have home consoles and an ipod touch that I can use for gaming.

  52. Duplicate File FinderGuest 5 years ago

    This seems to be a very serious issue also for navigation software like iGo which is 4gb for the iPhone. I guess google and hardware developers will resolve the issue soon. Myst is a really cool game :)

  53. the_trueGuest 5 years ago

    oh i read a many bullshit hear. an iphone had up to 32GB of memory but you have on the iphone a partition of 300MB for the apps. main stuff like music, sounds and texture of the game are outside of this partition. it is like you have a sd card.

  54. joeGuest 5 years ago

    people still aren’t understanding… you can install any game. iphone people are deliberately ignoring this… I own an iphone but want the new toy. I won’t not buy it because the executible is on the phone and the data is on the sdcard. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME WHERE MY DATA IS STORED IN MY LITTLE PLASTIC THINGY — MYST WILL STILL WORK. Stop all the QQs. The reason to own an iphone is if you <3 itunes (geniusplaylist ftw) and fasion, and/or have a favorite app that is not ported to droid yet. NOT this silly misinformation.

  55. goooooooooooooooooGuest 5 years ago

    have you guys seen the iphone ssucks video?

  56. TechnologizerGuest 5 years ago

    [...] to date. Even the latest, Motorola’s Droid, only allows for 256 MB of app storage. As Android and Me notes, that rules out a game like Myst, which on the iPhone occupies 727 [...]

  57. Advantages and Disadvantages of the Android PlatformGuest 5 years ago

    [...] Google fails to address app storage issue with Droid and Android 2.0 AndroidAndMe: The Motorola Droid will be the most powerful Android phone to date when it launches on November 6, 2009. However, the device still features the same shortcomings of all other Android phones. The Droid ships with a 512 MB ROM which contains only 256 MB available for app storage. [...]

  58. Muerto el Pre, viva el Droid! « FreedoniansGuest 5 years ago

    [...] Un detalle importante del Droid que me olvidé es que las aplicaciones sólo pueden guardarse en la ROM, cuya capacidad es de 512 MB, pero sólo tiene 256 MB libres. Pero también es verdad que ya hay un [...]

  59. alexGuest 5 years ago

    but the cnet reveiw said it came with 16 gigs!!!!! ahikufajkfhjkahjkfhkjam got mine about 10 hours ago and i think it just crashed

  60. Name (required)MattGuest 5 years ago

    NOOOOOOO!!!

    This kills it for me. I have to take my phone back now. There has to be some way around this.

  61. chaostheory6682Guest 5 years ago

    I recently purchased the droid but after finding out about the major limitations of the phone I believe I will be returning it. I guess if you want iphone quality games you have to get an iphone. To bad I enjoyed being a verizon customer.

  62. Andrew MayoGuest 5 years ago

    In fairness, it is correct that the iPhone does share this limitation. The OS partition is much smaller than the total available flash and applications have to fit into this space (about 500M total, I believe).

    You can jailbreak the phone and symlink to get round this – but then that’s true for Android as well. HOWEVER this doesn’t mean google can ignore the issue. Lower end Android phones such as the T-Mobile pulse (Huawei 8220) which are new on the market have very limited application space available – on my phone currently about 60M is free after installing just a few apps. So this is definitely a potential issue that requires a resolution.

  63. Matt shawGuest 5 years ago

    Are any of you intelligent people? Any? Any of you?

    ::shutters::

    Not getting into my real point, but another question to ask yourself.

    When your Hard drive runs out of space, what do you do?
    Get a new, bigger hard drive, or delete old, useless stuff.

  64. ThomasGuest 5 years ago

    I love you iPhone fanboys that arent bothering to heed the actual droid users comments regarding the fact they have no trouble carrying 100 plus apps with the majority of memory going to the SD card…

    Seriously…its not a physical problem, nor for the average joe. He doesnt care or know a thing. It is an image problem though because saying 32 gigs sounds awhole lot better than 256 onboard…

    What happens to your iPhone when yo urun out of storage space with 20 movies and 1000 songs? Opps..no more space for apps anymore either…

    It’s nothing more than an image problem, so I dont see it as a design oversight, its an image decision on the part of Google/Android/Manufacturer whomever you wish to blame.

  65. AT&T: The most crippled Android experience – Android and MeGuest 5 years ago

    [...] dozen or so AT&T apps that come preloaded with the device (bloatware). Android phones already struggle with limited storage space and having the carrier dictate which ones are installed on a user’s phone is a [...]

  66. T-Mobile Motorola CLIQ XT review – Android and MeGuest 5 years ago

    [...] phones are notorious for their limited internal storage space for apps, so it is disappointing to have someone else dictate how that gets [...]

  67. 7 reasons to choose the Sprint HTC EVO 4G over the Nexus One – Android and MeGuest 5 years ago

    [...] Android has a dirty little secret, it is the limited internal storage found on most phones. Google has said they are working on an encrypted solution to allow developers [...]

  68. BERNIEGuest 5 years ago

    HATERS, YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF ANDROID HATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(.5+.5)

  69. Sprint HTC EVO 4G vs Nexus One – 7 reasons why EVO 4G is the winner « GadGet4GGuest 5 years ago

    [...] Android has a dirty little secret, it is the limited internal storage found on most phones. Google has said they are working on an encrypted solution to allow [...]

  70. Official Apps2SD support “coming soon” to Android – Android and MeGuest 5 years ago

    [...] dirty little secret may finally be put to rest soon. Ever since the G1 was released, users have been asking Google to [...]

  71. KRazee DAveGuest 5 years ago

    Froyo does take care of the app issue.. Apps2SD moves most apps to your SD card, the 16GIG or 32Gig card…
    I am running a motorolla droid A855 with 2.2 froyo and 235 apps installed on it.
    Quadracent score of 1325 (if you do not know what that means it doesnt matter, but it is as fast as the newest nexus running 2.2)
    Battery life is decent, it is a computer tweakers dream and I have my wifes setup for ease of use (for non tweakers)
    What about chrome to phone? That absolutely rocks, anything I find online I can send to my phone that way, even directions. And it multi-tasks just fine out of the box.
    I have wifi tether also—– so my laptop gets internet from my phone (verizon is not charging more for that ) I also have usb tether if I want a locked connection.
    There are many pluses to this OS. The thousands of open source developers compared to ANY other smart phone OS is amazing.
    iPhone will have its day, Macintosh did, Texas Instruments did, IBM did. As for me my android phone works great, FRING gave me Voice over IP (skype) while I was in Haiti on missions without needing an international phone. The apps are plentiful enough, yes there is not 1million plus apps, but the 100K+ cover what I have needed and more and no company telling me what app I can and cant have.. So annoying.

  72. Josephina PotteigerGuest 5 years ago

    Excellent post, went ahead and bookmarked your site. I can’t wait to read more from you.

  73. Verizon Droid iDoesn’t Beat iPhone on Browser, Apps, Multi-touch or User Interface | TiPbGuest 3 years ago

    [...] Second, we all know the Android Market doesn’t have as many apps as the App Store, but maybe that’s a good thing since Android 2.0 still doesn’t fix its app space limitation, leaving Droid with a paltry 256MB for apps according to AndroidandMe.com: [...]

  74. SaiGuest 3 years ago

    Does android OS allow the application resources (images, video files, etc) to be stored on the SD card and just the code on their internal memory ?

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