Jun 07 AT 7:39 PM Alberto Vildosola 53 Comments

Oracle wants to murder Android, spit on its grave

Evil patent troll Oracle has come out from under the bridge once again to do what it does best: sue other companies. A new filing in the Oracle vs. Android lawsuit indicates the company wants more money in damages than all the profit Google has earned from the OS since it was released. Let me repeat that:  greedy Oracle wants all the money Google has made from Android… and then some.

According to the filing, Oracle is not only looking for a licensing deal, but also wants all the ad revenue Google gets from search on Android phones. Wow. But that’s not all. Oracle is also “seeking a judgment of willful infringement,” meaning the judge could triple the fine for past infringement. In the filing, Oracle notes that Microsoft already paid Sun $900 million in a lawsuit similar to this one.

It goes without saying that Google really needs to win this lawsuit. If it doesn’t, the future of Android could very well be in jeopardy. To be able to pay Oracle the amount of money the company is asking for, Google would have to start charging OEMs for Android. One of the advantages Android has over other platforms is that it’s free. But with companies like Oracle and Microsoft wanting a piece of Android’s success, that $0 price tag could soon come to an end.

You can read the whole filing below, if you’re into that kind of thing. You can also go here to get a very thorough breakdown. Once you’ve done so, come back here and and let us know what you think about the whole situation. Usually I ask you guys to keep it civil. This time, you have permission to go to town on Oracle. I don’t think the company can hate us any more than it already does.

Public Version of Google Filing Re. Oracle Damages

Via: BusinessInsider

Alberto is a college student living somewhere between Miami, Sarasota and the World Wide Web. Although a former iPhone owner, Alberto is now a proud Android enthusiast. You can follow Alberto on Twitter and Google+ for his thoughts unworthy of an article.

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  • http://Website Tito!


    • http://Website copyguy

      Google has two problems, the patent case, and the copyright case. Don’t forget FOSS victory in CAFC 2008-1001 – the model train lawsuit — breach of license. You are not only looking at an injunction on the patent side, but one as well on the copyright side. Because of the breach of license issue at the CAFC level, Google will need to appeal this to the supreme court. So Google has already lost. I think that is why Schmidt left. The two principals did not want to write a check to Oracle. (I suspect $19B — $24B)

    • Fjord Prefect

      Documents have recently been released that show Google’s intent to proceed with their Android development even if it was unable to obtain a legal license to use Java. There is Java code in their OS, Google knew they had to have a license to use it, but explicitly stated that if they were not granted permission, they would continue to use the IP anyway. That, my friend, is real BS.

  • http://Website zeeshan

    Wow REALLY ORACLE? piss of Android platform is the best thing ever since sliced cheese

  • http://Website Wasim

    So how will Oracle benefit from this other than being rich? cuz i think they just put a massive target on their backs!

  • http://Website Brett6781

    Larry Ellison needs to go fuck himself

  • http://Website KaLanGO

    The whole idea patent is bullshit. One thing is have the idea and other thing is to know a way to implement it. US is filled with stupid lawsuits from big companies that want to fuck competitors. Its not quite smart, its not good for market stability and competition and its incredibly stupid.

    • http://Website K²

      That’s a really good point, idea vs. implementation. I don’t know what the legal definitions are, but the whole Zuckerberg/Winklevoss imbroglio is a good example. They had a very loose idea, which was refined, modified and implemented by Zuckerberg. I thought a patent application had to state HOW a process will be used. If someone uses that process in ways you couldn’t even imagine, does that give you a blanket right to every possible use?

      • http://Website Vinter

        You know, I never understood the Facebook ordeal, them brothers claimed it was their idea.. but it was really just a modified version of Friendster and Myspace… I really don’t get what was so new about Facebook.

  • http://Website K²

    I like this line: “COCKburn’s analysis effectively seeks DISGORGEMENT of Google’s profits.” Especially in light of the Weinergate scandal swirling around us.

  • http://Website Max

    Bloody power ties.

  • http://Website /b

    It’s time for /b to get involved.

  • http://Website Raptor

    Short. The symbol is GOOG.
    The market trend so far is also bearish, so lose-lose for Google for a while. It will recover eventually.

  • http://Website evo2droidx

    How can a sane, reasonable judge,person,consumer allow this to happen? What this does is screw us, again. Just like zealous governments & welfare those who work their asses off make those who don’t work at all wealthy. Does this have even a remote possibility of going through?
    there has to be something we, as consumers can do…? It sucks being solely at the mercy of huge money mongering sleezball companies and one old man who doesn’t even realize what google is much less Android.
    These bullshit law suits need to stop or they will spell the end of American &or all innovation. Just cuz you had a decent idea patented it then flushed it down the toilet doesn’t mean you deserve $$$$ for someone implementing a parallel idea. CEO of Oracle when u die im chaining up a dozen dogs on top if your grave. Piss&shit that’s about all you amount to.

  • http://www.typhon4android.org/ Mike Leahy

    I’d really like to hear more about the terms that Google refused during negotiations to license Java from Sun. I either read somewhere (no link) or in general think Sun likely wanted too much control over branding and have a hand in OEM licensing, IE charging a royalty; no totally free / open release to OEMs or the general public. I’m gathering they also wanted to control too much direction of the Android / Java tech integration and not be as hands off as Google likely desired in general. Also I’m curious why Google didn’t get in the running to acquire Sun. Depending how things turn out with this Oracle debacle $7.4B is not a crazy acquisition price to seal up core technology and then some. Google would have been a much better steward not only with Java, but a variety of other open source efforts related to Sun in general. Given that big G might now be tapped in the worst case for $3-4B upfront, continuing licensing fees / tap on ad revenue, and being potentially forced with a change of business model for Android and at ultimately the worst situation abandoning Java entirely. The $7.4B acquisition cost is a drop in the bucket considering future prospects for the mobile space and Android even with the free as in beer / ad supported business model. I read early this year that general predictions for ad revenue alone for big G might be as large as $1B in 2012. Acquiring Sun would have been a very smart mid-term play let alone long term. Granted the corporate DNA between big G and Sun is way different Sun having a hardware/software focus and the former a primarily advertising based focus. That was then / now, but not the future per se. In general though I don’t think big G would have smoothly made the transition after acquisition given “the culture of beta”, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the current situation if things go south. As a long time Java developer since early ’96 I’m generally saddened by the whole situation. Android is the best thing to happen for the general hardware & Java tech I’ve been developing over the years.

    • http://www.typhon4android.org/ Mike Leahy

      A small addition… I chose to develop with Java back in ’96 to avoid Microsoft and the general mess that was Windows dev at the time. I actually got an internship at a startup before college at a Perl shop and one of my 1st tasks was to investigate this Java thing, create an IRC like chat client and report back. I stuck with it as Microsoft was the “big evil” back then and it very much makes me sad to see the language I’ve devoted so much of my life to fall into evil hands nonetheless. My work bridges J2SE & Android, but I’m afraid it feels like being caught between two warring giants. Last year was the 1st year my presentation proposals were turned down at JavaOne (doh included that Android term in them!). So… feels very much kind of wandering in the desert right now.

    • http://Website Derek

      I think you’re absolutely right. Its legally Sun’s (now Oracle’s) intellectual property. They can impose any thing they want in the licensing agreement. If Google doesnt agree to it, then legally they cant use it. They’re so big and arrogant they think the law doesnt apply to them.

      They should have just bought Sun and ended their problem. The cost of buying Sun would’ve been a drop in the bucket for cash-rich Google. Now they’re going to be embroiled in a nasty legal battle with Oracle. Code experts have already shown that Google stole whole sections of code from Sun’s java virtual machine. They stand a good chance of losing. But really Oracle doesnt want to shut down google’s use of java for android. This whole lawsuit is just an attention grabber designed to bring google back to the bargaining table.

      • http://www.typhon4android.org/ Mike Leahy

        >Code experts have already shown that Google stole whole sections of code from Sun’s java virtual machine.

        Which experts? Your quote above is pure FUD and puts anything else you say into major question.

        The suit will likely come down to the patents and at that a narrowed subset of claims accepted for trial.

        I did lay out a worst case scenario for Google / Android above regarding financial outcome if Oracle gets their way, but I’m ambivalent towards either Google or Oracle. Sure I don’t like Oracle on principle, but Google is not the same company it started out as a decade+ ago.

        As other folks have pointed out in comments this is one big case that really is going to put the spotlight on the insanity of software patents.

    • http://Website wildstar

      Derek, let me clear this up because lots of people are confused:

      Java is NOT owned or licensed by Oracle (or Sun) it is owned by the Java standards body.
      What IS owned by Oracle is the Java Virtual Machine (the interpreter of the language). The Sun license on the JVM was suck that if you used J2ME or J2EE and used their JVM you owed a license to Sun/Oracle. But since they don’t own the Java language itself, Google (and many others) have simply made their own JVM that knows how to interpret the Java language.

      Google even went as far as saying that their SDK uses java-like language (identical) but their JVM is wholly independent (they used the Dalvik JVM).

      It’s really worth noting that before Oracle bought Sun, Oracle and others were pissed at Sun because Sun changed their terms of licensing to include any Java interpreter, made by Sun or not, is considered reverse engineering and they wanted a license for those as well.

      This last move by Sun had a chilling effect on the Java community because it essentially meant that Java was suddenly and instantly no longer open source.

      Well, Oracle bought Sun and their tune changed well enough.

      The Microsoft case with Sun and JVM was actually not at all a precedence in this case because what Microsoft was ordered to pay was damages because they used their monopoly position to intentionally undermine the Java platform. They made their own JVM and then they changed the language such that it wasn’t compatible with other platforms. This would have been fine if it weren’t for the fact that MS had access to the OS underneath and could use their insider monopoly to make their JVM faster (and incompatible) and it was destroying competition. MS paid damages.

      As to the smoking gun code… The code that Oracle demonstrated was found in Googles open source posted code and is NOT included in any build of Android, not ever since the beginning. It turned out to be code uploaded by a 3rd party as test code and, again, hasn’t been included in Android.

      • http://www.typhon4android.org/ Mike Leahy

        @wildstar good post…

        >But since they don’t own the Java language itself, Google (and many others) have simply made their own JVM that knows how to interpret the Java language.

        There is even more separation than the above. Technically Dalvik is not a JVM, but a separate VM with distinct differences from a JVM and compiled bytecode of Java is translated to the Dalvik instruction set, You can’t run standard Java classes directly on Dalvik and vice versa you can’t run Dalvik bytecode on a JVM. So no interpretation of Java bytecode occurs during runtime on Android when an app runs. Essentially Java bytecode is cross-compiled to Dalvik bytecode; this is what the dx tool does when devs prepare apps to install / run / or prep for distribution on Android via the Market, etc.

        >It’s really worth noting that before Oracle bought Sun, Oracle and others were pissed at Sun because Sun changed their terms of licensing to include any Java interpreter, made by Sun or not, is considered reverse engineering and they wanted a license for those as well.

        One of the big problems surrounding open source and other JVMs in general is that the TCK (technology compatibility kit) was never open sourced. So if a vendor or organization wants to prove / certify that their implementation of what could be considered a formal JVM they would have to deal with licensing or deal with Sun at the time / Oracle now to get access to the TCK. At least this is my understanding. This is essentially one of many impetuses to create Dalvik and alternate VM tech that is unencumbered.

        The main point being that Dalvik is not a JVM and was not copied per se or contains code from any preceding JVM. That doesn’t preclude patent / claim coverage though. One or more of the conceivable patents covering general VM techniques as part of the lawsuit could be applied against Dalvik.

        So the copyright claims seem on the weaker side of things particularly because Apache Harmony is the base class set supported for cross-compilation, but the patent claims on general VM techniques are the more sticking parts that will likely form the core of the lawsuit / case.

  • http://droidcanvas.com Kleptine

    Anonymous incoming in 3…2…1…

  • http://Website Aaron

    I wonder how much more of this crap the current patent system can take before collapsing under the weight of all the lawsuits from future proofed patenting. And there really has to be a law against post-success lawsuits onn patents. How does the old addage go…”you snooze, you lose”..

    Just saying..

  • http://Website Raghav

    Oracle comes, Android goes.

  • http://Website SoDark

    who cares? chances are more than half the jury use android.

  • http://Website bkd69

    As usual, your best source for all information about Oracle v. Google is Groklaw:

  • http://Website Phil


  • http://Website Phil

    As I’ve said many times this is loose loose for Oracle. If they loose they basically open Java wide up to be used by anyone for anything. If they win they signal once and for all that Java is not really open source and you have to be careful what you do with it. Java is only useful because of the multitude of FOSS projects around it. Honestly either way it looks like they just wasted their money on sun.

    I think Oracle totally miscalculated when they bought Sun. They’ve managed to loose some high profile projects by thinking they were going to waltz in and monetize them. They seem to have completely forgot that the devs can pick up and move the project away from them. The same can happen with Java. The new project just can’t be called Java. And I wish people would stop comparig this to the MS case. MS purposefully created a not quite Java and called it Java. Oracles case here boils down to trying to patent the idea of a VM and some copyright infringement. And who would know better whether this stuff would stand up than the father of Java himself…..who now works for Google.

    • http://Website Derek

      Java has always been completely open, if you were writing java programs/apps. They’ll give you the IDE to develop in and all the libraries that go along with it. However, the one thing that’s never been free or open is the virtual machine that java programs/apps run in. I guess google felt above the law and just decided to steal mass sections of Sun’s code for the virtual machine. They’re in the wrong here and they know it. It was a calculated decision, steal the code and pay up later after their OS is the #1 smartphone OS.

      • http://Website Darkseider

        You see that’s where Oracle fails if in fact there is any questionable code. There is some kind of law or precedent that essentially states that they cannot wait X time and then sue. If they new the code was bad, which according to Oracle they did, they should have sued immediately and NOT wait for the product, Android, to become profitable to gain a larger payout. Regardless, Oracle will fail. I will laugh and all will be right in the world again.

  • http://punmobile.net punzz

    oracle the trouble maker, they wont get any cents from android!!!

  • http://Website Okkar

    Please stop quoting Florian Mueller’s “opinions” as a definitive source. He is nothing better than a paid troll.

  • http://www.protae-grobgrob.com ProtaeGrobGrob

    Demon will come back.

  • http://Website fudunkanut

    Google wins this one boys and girls. Rest easy. Android prevails.

  • http://Website Chris Baker

    Greed knows no bounds.

  • http://Website Ric

    Someone needs to get Anonymous or those chaps who took down Sony involved….let Oracle feel that wrath!

  • http://Website hagisbasheruk

    It would be i good idea for google to drop Java and build Android as a full linux platform

  • http://www.groklaw.com Anon, because of my country’s libel laws

    Florian Muller is a troll, who openly courts disagreements with the FOSS community to keep up his page views. This should be bourne in mind whenever he *again* makes controversial statements.

    An example: his last wild claim regarding Linux was dismissed on technical grounds by Linus Torvalds.

  • http://Website Anonymous

    Anonymous, put a spell on Oracle !!!!

  • http://Website Derek

    Maybe you should reconsider that Greedy and Arrogant Google should have just licensed the parts of java from Oracle that they needed, rather than just stealing them. Its already been proven that Google stole whole sections of code from Sun/Oracle java virtual machine coding.

    Maybe they should have done things the right way, the way Apple did when creating OS X. They bought OpenBSD and did things legally, rather than just stealing.

    I hate to say it, but Greedy, Arrogant Google is in the wrong here.

    • http://Website Dave

      It has most certainly NOT been proven. Even slightly. Please stop posting utter FUD.

    • http://Website Counsel

      Apple licensed FreeBSD…


      This is different than the current case… Nuff said.

  • http://Website Darkseider

    Well the good news is if anyone had any doubt about Ellison being an ass clown this should pretty much solidify it. Not to mention that he and Steve Jobs are closet lovers. You ever wonder why Oracle is going after Google? Quick hint. Steve tugged on Larry’s collar during a S&M romp and commanded him to. No surprise there at all. Hopefully the legal system will prevail and neuter Oracle’s new lawsuit like it did with their first attempt at stupidity.

  • http://www.seegadget.com Gadget

    Larry Ellison needs to go fuck himself yesssssssssss!!!

  • http://Website stefan

    All android fans, start influencing your employers to shift away from Oracle! If that starts to happen on masse maybe larry will back off…

  • McLovin

    It was a sad day for me when Oracle took over Sun MicroSystems. (SUN=Standford University Network)

  • http://Website Ms_Matrix2515

    LOL!! The graphic alone for this article is funny as hell. I like the little android screaming

  • http://techselekt.com/ faheem

    Android got a good base, Orcale cant kill it so easily

  • http://Website Androidlover

    Ok if matter gets out of hand then everybody tell google to open a donation box and we all can donate atleast one dollar and with 400 thousand activations daily we can spit on oracles ass- also fuck yourself oracle.

  • http://Website Androidlover

    Google can open a donation box if they need money and android fans will sure donate cmon guys with 400 thousand activations a day-even if everybody donates one dollar it would be enough.
    Also fuck yourself oracle, apple and microsoft-you all are most embrassing thing that ever happened to this world

  • http://Website Jim

    One big problem with the patent law as is, are the big patent trolls (Microsoft filed and got 6000 patents last year alone, google some 300 patents), do they have people sitting around a table and thinking how can we stop innovation? what is up with idea patents a patent should not be given unless there is actual implementation behind.

    Now Microsoft gets 5$ per andoid sold while fucking google themselves have chosen to get none, seriously, wtf is up with the old retards in that big crazy house we call congress do?

    • Jimmy Johansen

      MicroSoft gets $15! 3 times as sad

  • JimmyCrackedCorn

    As a Fedora user. I see this as a problem. Oracel is trying to monopolise on open-source. what’s next? is oracel gonna sue RedHat? is our government gonna allow the open-source computing world to be bought up and destroyed? are they soon gonna claim patent on every single idea? are they soon gonna say that “their” hospitals brought you to the world and they own you because of it? when will people wake up and smell the fascism?

    often people say they have no choice. but, really we do. we CAN make them stop! America belongs to NOONE. and American’s belong to NOONE. Our Constitution guarantee’s this.

    Voting is not the way to stop them. Get organised and go to congress/senate in person. Give them 2 options. resign willingly or be arrested on charges of treason. the corporate takeover must be stopped.